Good/bad experiences with Tow Vehicle Syndicates?

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 4:43:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
VW Golf/jetta tdi is more than sufficient to do the job and to have the great gas mielage of 40 MPG and the DSG transmission was almost made for this type of activity.

I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!) Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..

I believe that "tow ratings" are a game of "chicken" played by the auto marketing departments. Some companies like VW choose not to play. There was no common standard for tow ratings until SAE came up with J2807. Here is a good article on J2807. Toyota is the only company that has implemented the standard.

Here's an interesting article on JS807:
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...t/viewall.html

I don't want to exceed the tow rating for the VW because I think that would make it very easy for my insurance company to welch out of paying a claim should I ever have an accident (also 'lawsuit').

I'm leaning towards getting a decent but fully depreciated "safe tow vehicle". The insurance cost of adding a second vehicle with liability insurance will only cost me $20 a year. Having a "beater" to tow gliders is not a bad way to keep your total costs down in the long run.

On 10/2/2012 8:14 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
The insurance cost of adding a second vehicle with liability
insurance will only cost me $20 a year.

Wow! Having my 1989 Caravan minivan on my insurance is $200/year, only
$50/year cheaper than our 2002 Camry, both for liability only. What
company are you with? Are you the only person on the policy?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 20:14:11 -0700 (PDT), son_of_flubber
wrote:


I actually have a VW TDI with DSG. VW USA says the Golf will only tow 1000 lbs gross weight, (though the same car can tow 3000 lbs in Great Britain!)
Glider in trailer is 1800+ lbs..

Hmmmm.... I had a Golf IV Variant in Germany, and it also had that
1.000 lbs limitation - but only if the trailer did not have brakes.

The limit for a trailer with brakes was the mentioned 3.000 lbs limit.


Could you check again if you are reading your car's manual correctly,
please? I find it hard to believe that VW is limiting its cars in such
a drastic way.

On the other hand:
Reading the criteria that seem to make a good tow vehicle in the US
(heavy and a biiiiiiiig engine) I wouldn't be surprised if the 1.000
lbs limitation only is VW's way to get out oif the way of some
over-enthusiastic US lawyers...


Cheers from Germany
Andreas

whose current VW Passat Diesel tows a loaded Duo Discus trailer with
43 mpg at 55 mph, unfortunately for the price of $5.70 per gallon...

On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:22:31 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
I own a very fuel efficient car (40+ mpg) that handles the long drive to the airport at minimal cost. But my fuel efficient car is not suitable for towing a glider trailer... especially if I have to tow the trailer out of a muddy field.



So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something like a Subaru Forester?



Do people ever form Tow Vehicle Syndicates? How does that work out?
When I bought my first glider I bought the wife a new car and her old car (Ford Exploder) became my airport car. A spare car is the way to go. When you fly XC and contests no one in the family has to be without a car and you still get to drive your fun car during the week.
Kirk

Originally Posted by K

On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:22:31 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:[color=blue][i]

So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something like a Subaru Forester?

Speaking of wheel base...a Chevy Subdivision or GMC Yukon XL (I've got one of these and can attest they tow about anything comfortably) is close to unbeatable. They also come with sufficient stopping power and outweigh the glider/trailer combo by a comfortable margin. I believe there are plenty of these in the used market.

The real downside to these vehicles are 1.) the gas mileage and 2.) repair costs. If you only land out once in a while then it may be OK. If you find a decent copy that has been maintained then you should be OK there as well. However, with these vehicles, as with most things mechanical and have rubber on the road, there is no guarantee as they get older (meaning lots of miles or conditions of use).

Probably comes down to personal preference and compromise on a few things when it comes to decision time. Lots of variables to consider!

Brad A.

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 1:32:31 PM UTC-5, Brad Alston wrote:[color=blue][i]
K;825382 Wrote: On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:22:31 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote: So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something like a Subaru Forester? Speaking of wheel base...a Chevy Subdivision or GMC Yukon XL (I've got one of these and can attest they tow about anything comfortably) is close to unbeatable. They also come with sufficient stopping power and outweigh the glider/trailer combo by a comfortable margin. I believe there are plenty of these in the used market. The real downside to these vehicles are 1.) the gas mileage and 2.) repair costs. If you only land out once in a while then it may be OK. If you find a decent copy that has been maintained then you should be OK there as well. However, with these vehicles, as with most things mechanical and have rubber on the road, there is no guarantee as they get older (meaning lots of miles or conditions of use). Probably comes down to personal preference and compromise on a few things when it comes to decision time. Lots of variables to consider! Brad A. -- Brad Alston

My GMC pickup gets terrible gas mileage but it doesn't really get any worse with a trailer on board. I only paid $500 for it though and it enables a lot of fun so i just throw away the gas receipts.

In article ,
son_of_flubber wrote:

I own a very fuel efficient car (40+ mpg) that handles the long drive to the
airport at minimal cost. But my fuel efficient car is not suitable for
towing a glider trailer... especially if I have to tow the trailer out of a
muddy field.

So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something
like a Subaru Forester?

Do people ever form Tow Vehicle Syndicates? How does that work out?

No experience with a tow car syndicate. However, I can give a
recommendation for a multipurpose tow vehicle. I have been very happy
towing with a Toyota Sienna minivan. MIne is a 2000 model, V6, automatic
trans (of course). Very pleasant vehicle for daily use. Long enough and
heavy enough, with enough power and brakes, to be safe when towing a
glider trailer. Gets 22-24 mpg at 70 mph when not towing. Mileage drops
to 16-18 when towing my 1700lb trailer at 65 mph. It has 180k miles on
it now and has never been in the shop for repairs. I have not yet had to
replace even the front disc brake pads! I would expect later model
Siennas to be even better. Lots of them around and very reasonable to
buy used (in the US).

My other tow vehicle is 1987 Toyota Pickup based motorhome. It is
spectacularly underpowered, but somehow always gets the job done.

My (European) knowledge of cars and towing limits is a bit rusty, but for what it’s worth:

The auto company I worked for had a European tow limitation that required pulling up a 12 percent (IIRC) hill. I think it was a company standard rather than a legal requirement.

I had no direct experience of USA practice re towing limits, but in other contexts (engine performance when not towing) there was mention of American vehicles having to perform on Pikes Peak, a well known USA mountain? It may be that sort of expectation that led to lower towing limits in the USA for European vehicles – or as suggested above, it may just be caution re legal liabilities.

Another thing – not only is wheelbase a significant factor, so is rear overhang. A short wheelbase car with a long overhanging boot (Europe)/trunk (USA) is a bad combination, and leads to a low maximum stable speed above which anti-snaking has to be used – either the driver’s skill, or an anti-snake device. The latter are commonly available in Europe.

I leave to others to recommend what is best for towing in the USA, but I suspect that what we can get away with in Europe is not suitable for at least mountainous areas of the USA.

Chris N.

Do people ever form Tow Vehicle Syndicates? How does that work out?

I really never needed that.
I tow my 1300kg ArcusM Cobra trailer with a Ford C-max 1.6L TDI
diesel. That's also the max. legal towed mass for that car.
Excellent economy, excellent stabilty (surely much better than with my
partner's much heavier VW Tiguan).
Sure, we don't have many mountain passes at very hig density
altitudes, but still the turbocharged engine should cope with that. I
cross the Alps many times a year, though.

My trailer has single axle, surge brakes, and the stabilizing hitch
(it has friction pads surrounding the tow ball). The latter made quite
a difference compared to my previous set-up, which I used for years
anyway.

Speed limits in most of Europe are at 80kmh. By accepting the risk of
a moderate sanction, I usually drive at 99kmh GPS speed. At these
speeds, I hardly notice having a heavy trailer behind me.

In some countries, the limit is unchanged with car trailers, so I can
drive at up to 130kmh with no problem even when overtaking trucks.

Of course, you need to adapt your driving style to the heavy trailer.
No abrupt movements of the steering wheel, slower cruising downhill,
keep safe distance from preceding vehicles.

aldo cernezzi
www.voloavela.it

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:22:31 AM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
I own a very fuel efficient car (40+ mpg) that handles the long drive to the airport at minimal cost. But my fuel efficient car is not suitable for towing a glider trailer... especially if I have to tow the trailer out of a muddy field.



So if I buy a glider, do I need to trade in my very small car for something like a Subaru Forester?



Do people ever form Tow Vehicle Syndicates? How does that work out?

I can confirm a 1999 2.5L Subaru Outback did very well stability and braking wise when towing our Pfeiffer trailer where as a 6cyl 1992 Camry didn't do so well. Probably due to the fatter tires, better suspension, and 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS. We could easily hit 75mph with the Subaru without any swaying.

Although, I did miss having the 6cyl engine with an extra 0.5L of displacement on the long steep grades... (Daydreaming about an H6-3.0 Outback now)