New Class for US Nationals

On Friday, November 9, 2012 11:43:44 AM UTC-5, Kevin Christner wrote:
And the Ventus and LS6 will have a significant advantage at this years Mifflin Nationals if their are a few ridge days. I also wonder if you will ever get enough "modern" gliders to have two classes if the Ventus and LS6 are considered "club" gliders.



After 98% of racing pilots voted for club class gliders drivers to be considered for US Team, we had 2 years of waiting period before this could be implemented .



Meantime RC quietly expands list to LS-6 and this year quietly to



Ventus.(without asking anybody,without waiting period)



It is very disappointing that RC member showed up in Parowan Sports Nationals



with Ventus as a big surprise of new extended club class list !



RW

so we'll be seeing you there?

UH After 98% of racing pilots voted for club class gliders drivers to be considered for US Team, we had 2 years of waiting period before this could be implemented . Meantime RC quietly expands list to LS-6 and this year quietly to Ventus.(without asking anybody,without waiting period) It is very disappointing that RC member showed up in Parowan Sports Nationals with Ventus as a big surprise of new extended club class list ! RW

Who is RC member flying the Ventus?
Seems like you are trying to keep competition away.
You should be more worried about the guy in th Ka-6 than the guy in the Ventus.
What poll are you quoting?

I applaud the Rules Committee for their work and all the thought they must be putting into this matter.

Like Ryszard I wonder out loud why we are creating a class that is "almost" like the FAI class. I suppose it is very likely the National Champion will be a Ventus driver and then will have to borrow a "club class" glider to compete in the Worlds.

Lane
XF

On Nov 8, 6:47*am, wrote:
I applaud the Rules Committee for their work and all the thought they must be putting into this matter.

Like Ryszard I wonder out loud why we are creating a class that is "almost" like the FAI class. *I suppose it is very likely the National Champion will be a Ventus driver and then will have to borrow a "club class" glider to compete in the Worlds.

Lane
XF

Ryszard, I am glad they kept the weight correction, without it many
of would not fly in the Sports/Club class, especially in the west.
Here is an example; last weekend we were doing some flight testing
with three gliders, an ASG-29-15, ASW27 and my Ventus 2a. To get them
to equal wing-loading the ASG-29 flew dry, the ASW-27 added 29 pounds
of water and I had to add 211 pounds.

Lane, Almost no one from the US in Club Class flies their own glider
at the worlds. Club class gliders are much easier to rent than to
transport them from the US. Also, why are ASW-20's in club class but
not Ventus a and b and LS-6? No one has a good answer at this point.

Ryszard, I am glad they kept the weight correction, without it many

of would not fly in the Sports/Club class, especially in the west.

Here is an example; last weekend we were doing some flight testing

with three gliders, an ASG-29-15, ASW27 and my Ventus 2a. To get them

to equal wing-loading the ASG-29 flew dry, the ASW-27 added 29 pounds

of water and I had to add 211 pounds.


OT, but interested to know. What was the result of the flight test?
John Cochrane

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 8:47:38 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I applaud the Rules Committee for their work and all the thought they must be putting into this matter.



Like Ryszard I wonder out loud why we are creating a class that is "almost" like the FAI class. I suppose it is very likely the National Champion will be a Ventus driver and then will have to borrow a "club class" glider to compete in the Worlds.



Lane

XF

The definition of the gliders in the FAI Club class changes more often that you might imagine. It is very literally driven by what gliders are populating the typical club's hangers in a given iteration. It would not be even a little bit of a surprise to me if the Ventus shows up on the list by the time a WGC from the selections made from our new nationals rolls around.

One other consideration in how we manage the list in the USA. In Europe the extent of the capital commitment a pilot must make to the club class is to belong to a club that owns gliders. In the USA the pilot typically buys the glider for him/herself. Thus it is in our interest to not have the list as fluid as it is in Europe.

QT - Rules Committee

The contemporary of the ASW20 were the Mini Nimbus and LS3/a not the LS6 or
Ventus! both of the latter which where 2nd generation 15m designs - the
ASW20a was 1st generation 15m -Schleicher just got it right first time. If
i'm correct I believe 20B's cannot fly club class (at least in the UK).
DaeC index is the same though for all three - although other national
handicap systems have the 6 and Ventus as a higher handicap.
Anyway you need something like an old standard class glider to win at
World champs level i.e. Std Cirrus - the higher performance gliders in club
class don't do too well - why G.Dale traded down from an ASW24 to a DG100.

On Nov 7, 12:21*pm, wrote:
The US Rules Subcommittee has added Club Class as a national championship class starting in 2013. *The plan is to co locate with Sports.
Generally described, subject to usual wordsmithing and refinement, Club will be gliders with a handicap of .898(similar to what Worlds does except letting in LS-6 and Ventus 1) and all lower performance gliders. This means we extend beyond what WGC does on the low end to let everybody be able to play. No water ballast will be used.
"Modern" Sports will allow anybody to be in this class but handicap limit will be .940. Gliders below that performance may enter but will not receive the full handicap benefit and tasking considerations will not reflect their performance. *No water ballast will be used.
This concept allows common std ships like Discus etc and ships like 20's to decide which class they would like to enter.
The rules will provide for assigned tasks in both Modern Sports and Club, subject to task setter evaluation of the fleet in the class.
If we do not get 12 in Club and Modern Sports, the contest reverts to traditional Sports only.
Final numbers and rules text will be a few weeks away using the normal rules process.
Final approval will be at the SSA BOD *winter meeting in February.
It is expected that the US Team committee will use Club results going forward to select the Club team. This has not yet been confirmed by the USTC.
We are making this announcement in advance to allow affected pilots more time to plan.
If we waited through the full process, it would be only 3 months from approval to the race.
Full details of the proposed rules will be available as part of the Rules Change Summary due to be published on 12/22/12.
This will require re doing entries after the rule becomes effective. Thanks to Karl and Iris for putting up with this extra work. It would be helpful to them if you advise what class you intend to fly in.
For the Rules Committee
UH
RC Chair

A GREAT step forward! Club and Modern are two excellent divisions.
I'm sure 12 Club Class pilots will show up. Reverting the entire
contest to "Modern", if 12 Modern pilots do not show up, seems
counter productive though.

Mike

The best pilots will be at the top of the score sheet.

RC Chair



A GREAT step forward! Club and Modern are two excellent divisions.
I'm sure 12 Club Class pilots will show up. Reverting the entire
contest to "Modern", if 12 Modern pilots do not show up, seems
counter productive though.

Mike

If 12 sports and 12 modern do not show up, it reverts to traditional sports, not "modern." The big point: we do not send anybody home! If there is not enough for two classes, we fly in one class. That's why "club" includes lower performance gliders too.
12 pilots was chosen so we know for really sure that 8 will finish with 40% of the winners score.
John Cochrane

On Nov 8, 5:23*pm, wrote:
RC Chair

*A GREAT step forward! Club and Modern are two excellent divisions.
I'm sure 12 Club Class pilots will show up. Reverting the entire
contest to "Modern", *if 12 Modern pilots do not show up, seems
counter productive though.

Mike

If 12 sports and 12 modern do not show up, it reverts to traditional sports, not "modern." The big point: we do not send anybody home! *If there is not enough for two classes, we fly in one class. That's why "club" includes lower performance gliders too.
12 pilots was chosen so we know for really sure that 8 will finish with 40% of the winners score.
John Cochrane

Ooops! Yes,Traditional Sports. Makes perfect sense. Good going guys.