Black Friday deal from Spot

On Friday, November 30, 2012 12:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
Maybe it is worth waiting to see what Spot will come up with next? I would expect they will try to compete with InReach.



Ramy

Inreach is spot. Go to findmespot hit register an option pops up for inreach.

InReach is Delorme. As far as I know, Delorme is NOT Spot. I don't see the option you refer to.

Ramy

On Friday, November 30, 2012 7:30:40 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
InReach is Delorme. As far as I know, Delorme is NOT Spot. I don't see the option you refer to.



Ramy

Bzzztt, nope, that will cost you one beer :-)

Delorme is a company. They have done Spot/Globalstar stuff in the past, and seem to have dumped it for Iridium based products now.

InReach is a product/brand name of Delorme, the InReach products use the Iridum satellite service. That's a little Iridium logo on the front bottom of each unit.

Delorme has previously marketed products including the "DeLorme Earthmate PN-60w with SPOT Satellite Communicator" that included SPOT capability, these seem to have been replaced by the "InReach" branded Iridium based products (the PN-60 is now marketed with an InReach not a SPOT unit). Based on forum and other comments there seemed to have been some customer dissatisfaction with the message reliability of SPOT technology, most often the SMS style text messaging part of the service. And as much as I like the idea of the SPOT messenger I am still dismayed to see things like lags (~30 minutes or more) in their basic tracking service, which seems to be delays in the back-end delivering data, not something there is any excuse for.

You have to be careful comparing Iridum and Spot/Globalstar satellite service reliability since the *really* ****ty Globalstar voice service which has deservedly got Globalstar a black-eye is a different technology than the data service used by their Spot products. The problem with the voice service was with the early aging/death of S-band transmitters on the Satellites not the L-band transmitter used by the data service/sport. The actual issues for somebody like Delorne with their earlier Sport based products looks like an issue caused by the Globalstar simplex-only data-service. Delorme wanted to add SMS style messaging but the Globalstar data service is simplex-only so all you can do is try retransmitting a few times and then give up, the sender never knows if a Satellite saw the message. In contrast the Iridium data service used by the Delorme InReach is duplex (Iridium can also do simplex data services). The whole simplex-only data in Globalstar/Spot is no way to do any of this. Spot was a creative use of the existing Globalstar system while they were trying to address those horrendous S-band problems.

And duplex messaging is wonderful, its much better being able to two-way SMS-type message with your ground crew or SAR folks than just hope your SOS message got out. SAR folks like the duplex nature as it allows SOS confirmation/cancel capability. You can also do some neat things like turn on tracking remotely from the Web account (how many clubs, FBOs or contest CDs are frustrated about pilots forgetting to turn their SPOT on?)

Technology competition is a great thing, I'd love to hear more reports on how the Delorme InReach units are workign out for folks. The obvious things missing so far seems to be an API to get data from InReach/Iridium. If that opens up I can see these replacing SPOT units for many users. Anybody still wondering why SPOT is offering discounts and "freebies" to lock folks in?

Darryl

Oops sorry Ramy, I got my wires crossed between you and Greg and who said what on two posts, your response to Greg was correct. The InReach service is Iridum not spot.

Any Delorme SPOT mentions on web sites etc. is referring to their old deprecated SPOT products (that presumably are still working).

Darryl

On Friday, November 30, 2012 11:59:51 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2012 7:30:40 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:

InReach is Delorme. As far as I know, Delorme is NOT Spot. I don't see the option you refer to.







Ramy



Bzzztt, nope, that will cost you one beer :-)



Delorme is a company. They have done Spot/Globalstar stuff in the past, and seem to have dumped it for Iridium based products now.



InReach is a product/brand name of Delorme, the InReach products use the Iridum satellite service. That's a little Iridium logo on the front bottom of each unit.



Delorme has previously marketed products including the "DeLorme Earthmate PN-60w with SPOT Satellite Communicator" that included SPOT capability, these seem to have been replaced by the "InReach" branded Iridium based products (the PN-60 is now marketed with an InReach not a SPOT unit). Based on forum and other comments there seemed to have been some customer dissatisfaction with the message reliability of SPOT technology, most often the SMS style text messaging part of the service. And as much as I like the idea of the SPOT messenger I am still dismayed to see things like lags (~30 minutes or more) in their basic tracking service, which seems to be delays in the back-end delivering data, not something there is any excuse for.



You have to be careful comparing Iridum and Spot/Globalstar satellite service reliability since the *really* ****ty Globalstar voice service which has deservedly got Globalstar a black-eye is a different technology than the data service used by their Spot products. The problem with the voice service was with the early aging/death of S-band transmitters on the Satellites not the L-band transmitter used by the data service/sport. The actual issues for somebody like Delorne with their earlier Sport based products looks like an issue caused by the Globalstar simplex-only data-service. Delorme wanted to add SMS style messaging but the Globalstar data service is simplex-only so all you can do is try retransmitting a few times and then give up, the sender never knows if a Satellite saw the message. In contrast the Iridium data service used by the Delorme InReach is duplex (Iridium can also do simplex data services). The whole simplex-only data in Globalstar/Spot is no way to do any of this. Spot was a creative use of the existing Globalstar system while they were trying to address those horrendous S-band problems.



And duplex messaging is wonderful, its much better being able to two-way SMS-type message with your ground crew or SAR folks than just hope your SOS message got out. SAR folks like the duplex nature as it allows SOS confirmation/cancel capability. You can also do some neat things like turn on tracking remotely from the Web account (how many clubs, FBOs or contest CDs are frustrated about pilots forgetting to turn their SPOT on?)



Technology competition is a great thing, I'd love to hear more reports on how the Delorme InReach units are workign out for folks. The obvious things missing so far seems to be an API to get data from InReach/Iridium. If that opens up I can see these replacing SPOT units for many users. Anybody still wondering why SPOT is offering discounts and "freebies" to lock folks in?



Darryl

The logic is simple why Spot offers discounts on hardware (thay get far more on service and service renewals). Similar to giving away a free razor to make it up on selling blades in perpetuity. Cell phones same thing. etc. etc.

-Jim

On Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:29:38 AM UTC-8, Jim wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2012 11:59:51 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2012 7:30:40 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:



InReach is Delorme. As far as I know, Delorme is NOT Spot. I don't see the option you refer to.















Ramy







Bzzztt, nope, that will cost you one beer :-)







Delorme is a company. They have done Spot/Globalstar stuff in the past, and seem to have dumped it for Iridium based products now.







InReach is a product/brand name of Delorme, the InReach products use the Iridum satellite service. That's a little Iridium logo on the front bottom of each unit.







Delorme has previously marketed products including the "DeLorme Earthmate PN-60w with SPOT Satellite Communicator" that included SPOT capability, these seem to have been replaced by the "InReach" branded Iridium based products (the PN-60 is now marketed with an InReach not a SPOT unit). Based on forum and other comments there seemed to have been some customer dissatisfaction with the message reliability of SPOT technology, most often the SMS style text messaging part of the service. And as much as I like the idea of the SPOT messenger I am still dismayed to see things like lags (~30 minutes or more) in their basic tracking service, which seems to be delays in the back-end delivering data, not something there is any excuse for.







You have to be careful comparing Iridum and Spot/Globalstar satellite service reliability since the *really* ****ty Globalstar voice service which has deservedly got Globalstar a black-eye is a different technology than the data service used by their Spot products. The problem with the voice service was with the early aging/death of S-band transmitters on the Satellites not the L-band transmitter used by the data service/sport. The actual issues for somebody like Delorne with their earlier Sport based products looks like an issue caused by the Globalstar simplex-only data-service. Delorme wanted to add SMS style messaging but the Globalstar data service is simplex-only so all you can do is try retransmitting a few times and then give up, the sender never knows if a Satellite saw the message. In contrast the Iridium data service used by the Delorme InReach is duplex (Iridium can also do simplex data services). The whole simplex-only data in Globalstar/Spot is no way to do any of this. Spot was a creative use of the existing Globalstar system while they were trying to address those horrendous S-band problems.







And duplex messaging is wonderful, its much better being able to two-way SMS-type message with your ground crew or SAR folks than just hope your SOS message got out. SAR folks like the duplex nature as it allows SOS confirmation/cancel capability. You can also do some neat things like turn on tracking remotely from the Web account (how many clubs, FBOs or contest CDs are frustrated about pilots forgetting to turn their SPOT on?)







Technology competition is a great thing, I'd love to hear more reports on how the Delorme InReach units are workign out for folks. The obvious things missing so far seems to be an API to get data from InReach/Iridium. If that opens up I can see these replacing SPOT units for many users. Anybody still wondering why SPOT is offering discounts and "freebies" to lock folks in?







Darryl



The logic is simple why Spot offers discounts on hardware (thay get far more on service and service renewals). Similar to giving away a free razor to make it up on selling blades in perpetuity. Cell phones same thing. etc. etc.



-Jim

it was a rhetorical question, but the recent deals are undoutably prompted by InReach/Iridum entering the market. Spot desperately needs to try to lock folks in now that there is an Iridium service at an affordable price (compared to previous Iridium product). Spot faces serious competition, and its simplex data service is a fundamental weakness they can't change. Personally I see no reason for Spot to survive in the long-term against InReach. I'd not be surprised if Globalstar ends up over years junking the Spot consumer products/branding and goign back to focusing on global asset tracking (what they were doing with their simplex data service before they launched Spot). But for quite a while they'll continue to sell to a general consumer market who does not understand the differences. We'll see how aggressive they get at trying to educate consumers. For gliding the issue right now is data access APIs for tracking contests.

Darryl

On Saturday, December 1, 2012 11:03:20 AM UTC-8, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:29:38 AM UTC-8, Jim wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2012 11:59:51 PM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:



On Friday, November 30, 2012 7:30:40 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:







InReach is Delorme. As far as I know, Delorme is NOT Spot. I don't see the option you refer to.































Ramy















Bzzztt, nope, that will cost you one beer :-)















Delorme is a company. They have done Spot/Globalstar stuff in the past, and seem to have dumped it for Iridium based products now.















InReach is a product/brand name of Delorme, the InReach products use the Iridum satellite service. That's a little Iridium logo on the front bottom of each unit.















Delorme has previously marketed products including the "DeLorme Earthmate PN-60w with SPOT Satellite Communicator" that included SPOT capability, these seem to have been replaced by the "InReach" branded Iridium based products (the PN-60 is now marketed with an InReach not a SPOT unit). Based on forum and other comments there seemed to have been some customer dissatisfaction with the message reliability of SPOT technology, most often the SMS style text messaging part of the service. And as much as I like the idea of the SPOT messenger I am still dismayed to see things like lags (~30 minutes or more) in their basic tracking service, which seems to be delays in the back-end delivering data, not something there is any excuse for.















You have to be careful comparing Iridum and Spot/Globalstar satellite service reliability since the *really* ****ty Globalstar voice service which has deservedly got Globalstar a black-eye is a different technology than the data service used by their Spot products. The problem with the voice service was with the early aging/death of S-band transmitters on the Satellites not the L-band transmitter used by the data service/sport. The actual issues for somebody like Delorne with their earlier Sport based products looks like an issue caused by the Globalstar simplex-only data-service. Delorme wanted to add SMS style messaging but the Globalstar data service is simplex-only so all you can do is try retransmitting a few times and then give up, the sender never knows if a Satellite saw the message. In contrast the Iridium data service used by the Delorme InReach is duplex (Iridium can also do simplex data services). The whole simplex-only data in Globalstar/Spot is no way to do any of this. Spot was a creative use of the existing Globalstar system while they were trying to address those horrendous S-band problems.















And duplex messaging is wonderful, its much better being able to two-way SMS-type message with your ground crew or SAR folks than just hope your SOS message got out. SAR folks like the duplex nature as it allows SOS confirmation/cancel capability. You can also do some neat things like turn on tracking remotely from the Web account (how many clubs, FBOs or contest CDs are frustrated about pilots forgetting to turn their SPOT on?)















Technology competition is a great thing, I'd love to hear more reports on how the Delorme InReach units are workign out for folks. The obvious things missing so far seems to be an API to get data from InReach/Iridium. If that opens up I can see these replacing SPOT units for many users. Anybody still wondering why SPOT is offering discounts and "freebies" to lock folks in?















Darryl







The logic is simple why Spot offers discounts on hardware (thay get far more on service and service renewals). Similar to giving away a free razor to make it up on selling blades in perpetuity. Cell phones same thing. etc.. etc.







-Jim



it was a rhetorical question, but the recent deals are undoutably prompted by InReach/Iridum entering the market. Spot desperately needs to try to lock folks in now that there is an Iridium service at an affordable price (compared to previous Iridium product). Spot faces serious competition, and its simplex data service is a fundamental weakness they can't change. Personally I see no reason for Spot to survive in the long-term against InReach. I'd not be surprised if Globalstar ends up over years junking the Spot consumer products/branding and goign back to focusing on global asset tracking (what they were doing with their simplex data service before they launched Spot). But for quite a while they'll continue to sell to a general consumer market who does not understand the differences. We'll see how aggressive they get at trying to educate consumers. For gliding the issue right now is data access APIs for tracking contests.



Darryl

Oops and I forgot to mention that Mark Hawkins already has mapping data from the InReach working (e.g. see http://soaringcafe.com/2012/08/first...inute-updates). I'm not sure of the current status of this or if/when it will be available to everybody. Would be great to have an update from Mark or Frank.

Darryl