Flying Freight / Cargo for hire???

OK... I live on Cape Cod, and fly my Piper Apache to Nantucket Island
every day for work.
I'm a painting contractor, interior / exterior.....
A friend owns a quick lube / tire place.....
He said he paid the local airlines $25K last year in freight charges...
I said, how can i get a piece of that cake...
He said he would pay me $7.00 per tire to bring them over to him...
He did 2,000 tires last year, i'm thinking i could use the extra
$14,000.00..
Now, what do you guys think????

Mark

"Salem Farm & Garden" wrote in message
news:_9TVb.206301$Rc4.1686511@attbi_s54...
Interesting thread. What if you were flying your own freight? i.e. you
were
in the import business and flew your DC-6 over to China a couple times a
week to pick up products you intended to sell here? I would assume that
it
would still fall under part 121.


How would flying to China to pick up your companies on product be any
different than flying to China to pick up the president of the company which
can be done under part 91.?

"Mark S Conway" wrote in message
news:BCTVb.257698$I06.2780928@attbi_s01...
Now, what do you guys think????

Assuming you stick to just that one customer, based on the limited and vague
information that I've seen from the FAA on these things, it does not sound
to me like you'd have any trouble operating under Part 91, since you would
not be a common carrier, nor would you be operating one of the larger
aircraft that require adherence to Part 121 or 135 regardless of the common
carriage issue.

By the way, I also think you need three more questions to go with all those
question marks you used.

Pete

"Salem Farm & Garden" wrote in message
news:_9TVb.206301$Rc4.1686511@attbi_s54...
| Interesting thread. What if you were flying your own freight? i.e. you
were
| in the import business and flew your DC-6 over to China a couple times a
| week to pick up products you intended to sell here? I would assume that
it
| would still fall under part 121.

No, it is still part 91. You are not holding yourself out for common
carriage of passengers or property for hire.

"Mark S Conway" wrote in message
news:RwyVb.252706$xy6.1317027@attbi_s02...
| I'm a commercial pilot and have been asked by several people if I could
| bring things over for them.... tires for a business, etc....
| you know, just stuff.....
| I cant find anything in the regs about freight or cargo ops for commercial
| pilots, just operators.....

You cannot hold yourself out for common carriage of persons or property for
hire without complying with the requirements of part 119. Basically, you
have to be some kind of airline certified under part 121 (scheduled
airlines) or part 135 (charters and air taxis). "Holding out" generally
means that you are telling people that you are a commercial pilot and that
you are willing to do this, either through some sort of advertising or
through word of mouth.

If the individual hires you as a pilot to fly his stuff or his people in his
airplane then that is conducted under part 91. You can do that. He can even
have you carry people or property for others provided that is 'incidental'
to his own aviation requirements. He cannot rent the airplane from you and
then hire you to fly it; that dodge has been tried before. You probably
could not get away with him renting the plane from your flying club, either.

Commercial operators are extremely jealous of their privileges and if they
think you are violating the regs they will report you in a heartbeat. It
costs a lot of money to become certified as a commercial operator and it
really irritates them to have some guy undercutting them because he chooses
not to comply with the experience, insurance, maintenance, operating rules,
training and other requirements that they have. I know places where they
don't report you, though. They just beat you up and leave you out in the
desert somewhere.

"Mark S Conway" wrote in message
news:BCTVb.257698$I06.2780928@attbi_s01...
OK... I live on Cape Cod, and fly my Piper Apache to Nantucket Island
every day for work.

He said he paid the local airlines $25K last year in freight charges...

If you want to do this, make damn sure you check it out and have all your
ducks lined up properly, because that guy who is about to lose 25K of
revenue to you, a part 91 operator, will probably be on the phone to the Fed
before you have your wheels in the wells.

JG

OK guys, i get the picture...
I guess the only thing is, i dont want to **** off the local commuter
company...i know they will see me loading and unloading...it's a busy
airport.
I have a better understanding of the Regs now..
If i had a single customer or a select few, i guess it would be ok..

Thanks, Mark

Mark,

What you described is a Part 135 compensation. You are being
compensated for flying and you don't meet one of the exceptions. It's
that simple. Believe me, this has all been tried before. If a person
pays to have cargo or people moved by airplane, the FAR and the NTSB's
interpretation of them have been consistent, it is a for-hire
operation and the person paying for the operation is entitled to a
much higher level of qualification for the operator he is paying than
normal Part 91 ops.

The sanction you face is suspension or revocation of your certificate
and/or a civil penalty (fine) for each and every infraction, at a max
of $1,100 per infraction which can be interpreted as every flight you
make.

If you want to carry cargo for hire, you are going to have to get a
135 air taxi certificate.

Otherwise, if you are making the flight and if you are paying for it,
you can carry stuff for a friend as a favor, but you cannot charge
anything for it.

This issue comes in front of the FAA all the time from pilots trying
to find a way to build time for less money and the pilots get hammered
each time.

All the best,
Rick

"Mark S Conway" wrote in message news:BCTVb.257698$I06.2780928@attbi_s01...
OK... I live on Cape Cod, and fly my Piper Apache to Nantucket Island
every day for work.
I'm a painting contractor, interior / exterior.....
A friend owns a quick lube / tire place.....
He said he paid the local airlines $25K last year in freight charges...
I said, how can i get a piece of that cake...
He said he would pay me $7.00 per tire to bring them over to him...
He did 2,000 tires last year, i'm thinking i could use the extra
$14,000.00..
Now, what do you guys think????

Mark

"Mark S Conway" wrote in message news:RwyVb.252706$xy6.1317027@attbi_s02...

I cant find anything in the regs about freight or cargo ops for commercial
pilots, just operators.....

Only operators can perform freight operations, per part 119.1.

Also, have a look at 61.133, which is conveniently titled "Commercial
pilot privileges and limitations." You can be pilot in command for an
operation to which parts 121 / 125 / 135 etc. apply.

"Brien K. Meehan" wrote in message
om...
"Mark S Conway" wrote in message
news:RwyVb.252706$xy6.1317027@attbi_s02...

I cant find anything in the regs about freight or cargo ops for
commercial
pilots, just operators.....

Only operators can perform freight operations, per part 119.1.

Brian, could you elaborate, please? I just re-read 119.1 and could not find
any statement restricting freight ops to commercial operators.

Thanks,
Gary