Pirker Final Glide Theory

In short, the Pirker "theory" says that in a final glide to the determine
the best speed you do:
1) calculate the glide ratio needed to get over the final turnpoint
2) for that glide ratio you calculate the corrispondent MC value for your
polar
3) for that MC value you get the speed to fly

I did not know pirker wrote these things in 1999, for me they are just
obvious.

paolo


"Paul Remde" wrote in message ...

Hi,

I think we'd all love to have access to the document. I'd be glad to post
it on my web site if that would help.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
________________________

wrote in message
...

On Monday, January 14, 2013 10:19:27 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Does anyone have a link to, or a copy of, an English language paper or
explanation about Dr Herbert Pirker's final glide theory? I can't even
locate one in German via Google.



I can find snippets about it relating to implementation on StrePla in
2006vand I understand that a couple of the NavBoxes on LX 8000/9000 relate
to this.



http://www.strepla.de/StrePla4/engli...t_Winter05.htm



Thanks,



John Galloway

John: I've been looking through my stacks and finally found an english
translation as well as the artilcle from aerokurier. I'll get around to
scanning in PDF formats and email these articles to you.

Isn't this the principle behind the Stocker final glide
calculator, as described in Reichmann's
"Streckensegelflug", mid 1970s?


At 10:40 11 February 2013, pcool wrote:
In short, the Pirker "theory" says that in a final glide
to the determine
the best speed you do:
1) calculate the glide ratio needed to get over the
final turnpoint
2) for that glide ratio you calculate the
corrispondent MC value for your
polar
3) for that MC value you get the speed to fly

I did not know pirker wrote these things in 1999, for
me they are just
obvious.

paolo


"Paul Remde" wrote in message
...

Hi,

I think we'd all love to have access to the
document. I'd be glad to post
it on my web site if that would help.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
________________________

wrote in message
news:4b8c77f1-1a6e-489e-a98c-
...

On Monday, January 14, 2013 10:19:27 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
Does anyone have a link to, or a copy of, an
English language paper or
explanation about Dr Herbert Pirker's final glide
theory? I can't even
locate one in German via Google.



I can find snippets about it relating to
implementation on StrePla in
2006vand I understand that a couple of the
NavBoxes on LX 8000/9000
relate
to this.




http://www.strepla.de/StrePla4/english/News/News_in
_pocket_Winter05.htm



Thanks,



John Galloway

John: I've been looking through my stacks and
finally found an english
translation as well as the artilcle from aerokurier.
I'll get around to
scanning in PDF formats and email these articles to
you.

I remember I had implemente the Stocker final glide circles time ago in the
software, basically they represent glide ratio ranges.

Since these concept are just obvious nowadays, I assume that years ago -
before gps - everything had to be done using approximated distances and
airspeed only, so the final glide was relative to the airmass, in principle,
and not to the ground.
Apart from that, if I am not wrong the Pirker analysis does not consider the
wind in final glide according to the document I read.
Nor does it consider total energy, apparently.

paolo


"Richard Brisbourne" wrote in message
...

Isn't this the principle behind the Stocker final glide
calculator, as described in Reichmann's
"Streckensegelflug", mid 1970s?


At 10:40 11 February 2013, pcool wrote:
In short, the Pirker "theory" says that in a final glide
to the determine
the best speed you do:
1) calculate the glide ratio needed to get over the
final turnpoint
2) for that glide ratio you calculate the
corrispondent MC value for your
polar
3) for that MC value you get the speed to fly

I did not know pirker wrote these things in 1999, for
me they are just
obvious.

paolo


"Paul Remde" wrote in message
...

Hi,

I think we'd all love to have access to the
document. I'd be glad to post
it on my web site if that would help.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
________________________

wrote in message
news:4b8c77f1-1a6e-489e-a98c-
...

On Monday, January 14, 2013 10:19:27 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
Does anyone have a link to, or a copy of, an
English language paper or
explanation about Dr Herbert Pirker's final glide
theory? I can't even
locate one in German via Google.



I can find snippets about it relating to
implementation on StrePla in
2006vand I understand that a couple of the
NavBoxes on LX 8000/9000
relate
to this.




http://www.strepla.de/StrePla4/english/News/News_in
_pocket_Winter05.htm



Thanks,



John Galloway

John: I've been looking through my stacks and
finally found an english
translation as well as the artilcle from aerokurier.
I'll get around to
scanning in PDF formats and email these articles to
you.

actually, as far as I remember, that is incomplete. it also said that once the calculated MC reaches the current average of your thermal it is time for starting the final glide. that way you will not waste time climbing any higher and you have the most efficient final glide compared to others who decided to stop climbing earlier but have to fly slower due to that.

this is pretty much also how the Final Glide AutoMC feature in XCSoar (and I think also LK8000?) works. I've used that feature for years now, and I think it is quite simple to use and understand, and also works quite well from my experience.

When you're doing Auto MC please mind the MC theory:

If you hit sink on the final glide the required MC value will go down. According to AutoMC you would be advised to fly slower. **Slower through sink**??

You should always fly your Speed to fly director from the Vario. Even if you fall below final that's the only way to get to the other side as high as possible. "Auto MC" is just a value which is "nice to know" but certainly not the optimal way to get home.

Having said that I too always make my final glides (since before GPS and SeeYou Mobile) comparing required L/D with Current L/D (which is just another way to represent the required MC value)

The original Pirker final glide calculator deals with wind and final glide around the corner iirc which is not as trivial as doing it in a straight line.

Regards,
Andrej Kolar
--
glider pilots use
http://www.Naviter.com

On Monday, February 11, 2013 11:57:49 PM UTC+1, Tobias Bieniek wrote:
actually, as far as I remember, that is incomplete. it also said that once the calculated MC reaches the current average of your thermal it is time for starting the final glide. that way you will not waste time climbing any higher and you have the most efficient final glide compared to others who decided to stop climbing earlier but have to fly slower due to that.



this is pretty much also how the Final Glide AutoMC feature in XCSoar (and I think also LK8000?) works. I've used that feature for years now, and I think it is quite simple to use and understand, and also works quite well from my experience.

On Monday, January 14, 2013 10:19:27 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Does anyone have a link to, or a copy of, an English language paper or explanation about Dr Herbert Pirker's final glide theory? I can't even locate one in German via Google.



I can find snippets about it relating to implementation on StrePla in 2006vand I understand that a couple of the NavBoxes on LX 8000/9000 relate to this.



http://www.strepla.de/StrePla4/engli...t_Winter05.htm



Thanks,



John Galloway

John: send me your email by responding to