Couldn't Get it Down

I hope I turn out to be as smart and judicious a pilot as you've proven
yourself to be wtih this situation.

Thanks, Jay.

It's funny how your perspective changes with age. As a student, I was
exposed to extremely high winds with my instructor. (Peak gust: 62 knots!)

I was too stupid to be afraid. In fact, I had a great time on that flight,
and at the time felt that it was one of my best lessons...

Until years later, when I realized what a foolish thing it was to do.
True, the winds had come up abruptly, but we didn't check the weather very
thoroughly before departing, either. I find it hard to believe, in
retrospect, that those extreme winds weren't predicted, and we could easily
have bent metal that day.

Then, after I got my ticket, I flew out of a little, single-strip airport in
Wisconsin. There was ALWAYS a cross-wind, and the runway was just 30 feet
wide, so by necessity I got pretty danged good at nailing it in just about
any kind of wind.

However, after a few excursions into the parallel grass strip (and a few
real scares on pavement), my respect for crosswinds increased. I was still
good at handling them, but -- having lived through a few hundred landings --
I was learning my limitations.

Now, for the past seven years I have flown out of an airport with 3
intersecting, 150-foot wide runways. Needless to say, my cross-wind skills
are not what they were, and -- although I think I'm still pretty danged
good -- I've learned that there are more important things in life than
landing.

Most importantly, however, is the knowledge that I must pay for any repairs!
It's *amazing* how that changes your perspective!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I was flying a tiny electric model one day in a light wind. I thought I was pretty cool slowing down until I could land vertically.

Pretty cool that is, until the wind abruptly stopped when I was 8 foot up. Can you say splat?

Mike Z


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:g6%3c.6559$Gm5.17364@attbi_s04...
It's funny how your perspective changes with age. As a student, I was
exposed to extremely high winds with my instructor. (Peak gust: 62 knots!)

Big Snip
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
No, this is not a story about Viagra's side effects... ;-)

Amazingly, today dawned clear and sunny -- against all predictions. Thus,
once the kids were at school, it was time for us to head to our favorite
"$100 Breakfast" in Muscatine, IA.

Great writeup! Thanks for posting.

In my limited experience, I've found that if you can't get the plane pointed
down the runway on final and you're applying full rudder, you can't land the
plane on that runway. Or shouldn't at least. I've had this happen only once
so far and it was a real eye opener. Up to that point, I had always wondered
if I would be able to tell when a crosswind was too much for the plane,
since I had never experienced it. I was relieved to find that it's a real
no-brainer and doesn't require tons of judgement.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

"Trent Moorehead"
In my limited experience, I've found that if you can't get the plane
pointed
down the runway on final and you're applying full rudder, you can't land
the
plane on that runway. Or shouldn't at least. I've had this happen only
once
so far and it was a real eye opener. Up to that point, I had always
wondered
if I would be able to tell when a crosswind was too much for the plane,
since I had never experienced it. I was relieved to find that it's a real
no-brainer and doesn't require tons of judgement.

Agreed. After initial training, I've never considered kicking the crab out
an acceptable way to land if you can't maintain alignment in a slip. Time
to do something else (which Jay did).

The one time I ran out of rudder while slipping was Key West. There really
aren't any suitable xwind taxi way options or anything else to land on.
Turned out that within 10 feet or so of the ground, the wind gradient
reduced the xwind enough so that full rudder allowed me to keep it straight.
I was ready to abort and return to Miami. But taxiing the 'ol butt dragger
was another matter.

Good stuff as always Jay!

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
(Lotsa good stuff snipped)
For the first time in I can't remember when, I executed a go-around...

Hey, Jay: I've been lurking on this newsgroup so long that I feel like
I know you and a bunch of others.

Just wanted to make one point. Go arounds are a reflection of the
excellent pilot exercising excellent judgement.

I had an older instructor many moons ago who told me that every
landing where you actually land should be a pleasant surprise. He
taught that one should plan every approach with the full expectation
of going around...and if, perchance, one finds oneself with one's
ducks all in a row over the numbers, well, go ahead and land, and good
luck for it.

I am not suggesting that I go around all that often, but I think a lot
of pilots get in the "I'm gonna get this damn thing on the ground
regardless..." mindset, and that leads to problems after they manage
that feat. Our airplanes rarely get damaged up there in the sky. Most
of the really dangerous bits are associated with the ground. Land when
you are well prepared to land. Otherwise go up and take another shot
at it.

Of course, when I fly my glider, going around is a lot harder! :-)

Jim

Jay,

Welcome to spring, when they take down the wind socks and put up the
log chains and wind shear is a frequently used noun.

It's also a good time to point out that it's perfectly legal to land
on a taxiway, and sometimes a good idea when it's pointed into the
wind and the runway isn't.

Just a thought: there's no reason to fly a "stabilized" approach in a
piston engine airplane, that is a jet concept developed for the slow
power response of the early jets. It should not be applied rigidly to
piston pounders as it's rarely wise to fly a constant airspeed
throughout the approach (you'll die of old age first g). There's a
good article on it in the Feb or March issue of IFR magazine.

Hope all is well.

Warmest regards,
Rick

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
No, this is not a story about Viagra's side effects... ;-)

Amazingly, today dawned clear and sunny -- against all predictions. Thus,
once the kids were at school, it was time for us to head to our favorite
"$100 Breakfast" in Muscatine, IA.

Conditions seemed perfect, but I knew some weather was predicted to move in
later. Thus, a call to flight service was in order, even though Muscatine
was just 20 minutes away. (It's always a good idea to check on GW's
location during this election season, too...) To my surprise, Ft Dodge
Flight Service was calling the surface winds at 15, gusts to 20, from 180.
We had just walked our daughter to school, and the winds were light -- but
obviously there was a big low pressure center moving in from the north,
causing an increasing southerly flow.

Still, the winds were right down the runway in Iowa City, and 60 degrees off
of runway 24 in Muscatine. So, I figure it would be a piece of cake...

We departed normally, lightly loaded with just the two of us and climbing
out at better than 1400 feet per minute. Immediately we were buffeted by
moderate turbulence, but nothing we hadn't felt a hundred times before. In
a few minutes we were enjoying the smooth ride at 3000 feet.

As we proceeded southeasterly, we noticed our flight path across the ground
was quite different from the direction we were facing. The crab angle was
severe, and incredibly our ground speed during the climb out was just 54
knots! Even after we leveled off we were seeing just 95 knots -- a
quartering headwind at 45+ knots!

Still, the ride above the haze layer was smooth, and we weren't going far.
As we enjoyed the ride I tuned in Muscatine's AWOS.

"...wind 180 at 19, gusts to 27..." Uh-oh. This could be more
interesting than I anticipated.

Coming from the north we'd have to cross over the field to enter the
downwind for 24, and the wind would be pushing us in toward the runway at a
good clip. Thus, I set up to cross over just southwest of the field, and
entered a much wider than normal downwind.

I started to get an inkling of what was in store when I had to maintain a 45
degree crab angle in order to fly a parallel downwind. After we descended
to pattern altitude the turbulence had returned with a vengeance, including
some rare "triples" -- the kind of air that bumps you up and down three
times in rapid succession, almost as if you were hitting multiple railroad
tracks in a car at high speed.

Mary had grown strangely quiet, and was rocking from side to side in sync
with the wings rocking, in a vain effort to maintain her upright balance.
I was so busy trying to keep from being blown back over the airport on
downwind that I hadn't noticed the violent rocking until I saw her motions
out of the corner of my eye.

This *was* going to be interesting.

Turning onto base, it seemed like the plane didn't want to turn or descend.
I'd get Atlas set up for a 90 knot descent, only to be tossed up and see my
air speed erode to 75. Then, after correcting a moment later we'd be
instantly at 100. A stabilized approach was simply out of the question.

Turning onto final was like turning a boat. With the wind trying to push me
past the runway, the instinct was to steepen the bank angle -- but a
thousand landings had taught me not to over-do that! Thus, my turn to
final was an exercise in will, banking, over-banking, correcting, banking,
over-banking, correcting. Instead of the usual graceful, sweeping turn onto
final, it was a series of 20 little banks, all connected together by my
furrowed brow.

I was really working now.

Sliding down on final, keeping my airspeed at 100 knots, sort of, I realized
that I was having to hold an impossible left crab angle to maintain runway
alignment. Kicking in right rudder, and opposite aileron helped, but soon
the runway was drifting to the left in the windshield again.

More aileron, more right rudder, more crab...

Now I was *really* working. Curtly I commanded Mary to turn the cabin heat
down. It was already off.

Soon I had full rudder deflection, full opposite aileron, AND a 45 degree
crab. At last the runway was remaining steadfastly in front of me -- but I
realized that if I were to touchdown in that crab, my A&P would be making
yet another upgrade to his 42 foot yacht...

Worse, since I was already at full deflection on the rudder AND aileron,
there was nothing left with which to kick out! In a flash a greasy
breakfast served by an ugly waitress didn't seem like a valid reason to fly
anymore. Applying full power and releasing my aileron and rudder, I was
astounded to see the runway literally *fly* away from us -- sideways!

For the first time in I can't remember when, I executed a go-around...

Once safely at altitude and out of the bumps, I realized my hands were
hurting. I slowly pried them off of the yoke, marveling at how different
this trip -- taken so many times before -- could suddenly change for the
worse. I remarked to Mary how much "fun" this was, but she had another term
for it.

Needless to say, the trip back to Iowa City was quick. And even with the
wind directly on the nose, I had one helluva time making an acceptable
landing. What a day...

Once the plane was in the hangar, we sat and enjoyed the sunny skies. No
one driving by could possibly have a clue how treacherous that pretty blue
sky was today...

Just a thought: there's no reason to fly a "stabilized" approach in a
piston engine airplane, that is a jet concept developed for the slow
power response of the early jets. It should not be applied rigidly to
piston pounders as it's rarely wise to fly a constant airspeed
throughout the approach (you'll die of old age first g).

That's interesting. From my student days I was always taught to fly a
stabilized approach, from abeam the numbers on crosswind, all the way till
the flare.

As the years have gone by, I've experimented with any number of methods,
and -- while they all work out in the end -- none of them can as easily
yield the consistent greasers of a stabilized approach.

My definition of "stabilized" has evolved over time, however. I used to set
up 80 mph on downwind, and hold that speed precisely all the way around.
Combined with the huge patterns I used to fly as a student, the landing
pattern could become a journey unto itself! :-)

Nowadays, I'll come into the pattern much faster -- at say, 100 knots -- and
stabilize it at 90 knots before I turn base. Then I'll let the speed
gradually erode to 80 or so, and hold it all the way round. My patterns
are MUCH tighter as well.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

That's interesting. From my student days I was always taught to fly a
stabilized approach, from abeam the numbers on crosswind, all the way till
the flare.

That's because most CFIs are building time for the majors and they tend to train
you as if you were planning to fly jets too. If you get a CFI who isn't planning
on doing anything except flying light aircraft and convince him that you don't
intend to do anything else either, you frequently get different instructions.
Even if this is not the case, if you ask a CFI why he recommends a particular
course of action, the answer frequently is that you need to get in the habit of
doing whatever 'cause you need to do it that way "when you upgrade to higher
performance aircraft".

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Even if this is not the case, if you ask a CFI why
he recommends a particular course of action, the answer frequently is that
you need to get in the habit of doing whatever 'cause you need to do it
that way "when you upgrade to higher performance aircraft".

Sometimes, though, that's the right answer. After reading the POH for the
retract that was to be the first complex I'd ever fly, I mentioned to my
CFII "so *that's* why you want me to tap on the brakes on departure".

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


Even if this is not the case, if you ask a CFI why
he recommends a particular course of action, the answer frequently is that
you need to get in the habit of doing whatever 'cause you need to do it
that way "when you upgrade to higher performance aircraft".


Sometimes, though, that's the right answer.

Only if you are going to move to a different aircraft soon. If not then
it's a bunch of BS.