Self fly hire in the US

"S Green" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
om...
"S Green" wrote in message
...
"Nigel" wrote in message
...
I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this
year
and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I
have
a
UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then
rent a
plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
venture
down
to Key West as I have done before..

Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?

Nigel

If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
flight
hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to
travel
visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since
the
introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
Security
Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
required
to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of
aircraft
you
will be flying.

Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how
to
schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
www.usembassy.org.uk



I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
aircraft?

As the advice says you may be able to hour build ie rent on the Visa
waiver
program but it recommends getting the B-2 (tourist visa) and a letter from
the plane company to give details of the planes you are likely to hire.

Anyone in doubt should read this link:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=65838

I've read the link. It says that if he has a FAA license he can come on the
visa waver program and fly as long has he meets the usual BFR/Medical
standards.

Where do you get the bit about recommending getting a B-2? You
realize what a complete pain in the neck this is these days, don't you?
Why make it more complicated?

"Tony Cox" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"S Green" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
om...
"S Green" wrote in message
...
"Nigel" wrote in message
...
I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation
this
year
and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida.
I
have
a
UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and
then
rent a
plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even
venture
down
to Key West as I have done before..

Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?

Nigel

If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up
flight
hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to
travel
visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified,
since
the
introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation
Security
Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be
required
to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of
aircraft
you
will be flying.

Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on
how
to
schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website
at
www.usembassy.org.uk



I am not an expert on this subject, but this sounds quite ridiculous.
His primary reason for visiting the U.S. is vacation, not flying.
Renting an airplane is incidental to his travel, just like renting a
car, or a bicycle. Why does that require a special visa? Does a
regular tourist visa prohibit one from renting or purchasing an
aircraft?

As the advice says you may be able to hour build ie rent on the Visa
waiver
program but it recommends getting the B-2 (tourist visa) and a letter
from
the plane company to give details of the planes you are likely to hire.

Anyone in doubt should read this link:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=65838

I've read the link. It says that if he has a FAA license he can come on
the
visa waver program and fly as long has he meets the usual BFR/Medical
standards.

Where do you get the bit about recommending getting a B-2? You
realize what a complete pain in the neck this is these days, don't you?
Why make it more complicated?

Read further up this post, the info came from the US embassy. As I say if in
doubt write to them yourself. The advice in the link was posted in Feb 2003,
the advice from the US embassy was January 2004



When I queried the bit about the recommendation they came up with this:

Some travellers are eligible to travel under the Visa Waiver Program in lieu
of a B-2 visa. While you may meet the requirements for visa free travel, we
recommend that you apply for a visa, which will ease your entry into the
United States. Please bear in mind, however, that the information above is
only appropriate if you are only building up flight hours.

If you intend to receive flight training in the US, you will require an F, J
or M visa.

At the end of the day you can choose to take the advice or not it is up to
you.

If you decide it is too much trouble then fine, go and spend your money
somewhere else, but if you really want to fly in the US follow the rules.
And remember this bit of information from the US embassy website

A visa is issued by a U.S. Embassy or Consulate. A visa entitles the holder
to travel to the United States and apply for admission; it does not
guarantee entry. An immigration inspector at the port of entry determines
the visa holder's eligibility for admission into the United States.

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:51:44 -0000, "Nigel"
wrote:

I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have a
UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture down
to Key West as I have done before..

Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?

Nigel


Assuming you have an original FAA certificate (not a temporary
certificate issued on the basis of your UK licence) then you shouldn't
need anything but your FAA certificate, FAA medical and have the BFR.

I have a FAA certificate and went to Honolulu in January. Did the BFR,
got the medical and had hoped to fly to Molokai but believe it or not
the weather was poor for the day I'd arranged to fly solo otherwise no
problem. I went into the US on the Visa Waiver system.

David

Piper Warrior G-BHJO
Scotland, UK

E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

I asked this question last year when I was in Seattle. They had no idea. I
ended up renting a plane dual as I didn't have enough time to take the BFR.

What I did was to take the BFR back here in the UK and I will rent next time
I'm out there.

John

"Nigel" wrote in message
...
I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have
a
UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture
down
to Key West as I have done before..

Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?

Nigel

You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.

A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He made
an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR checkride
the same day.


"Nigel" wrote in message
...
I am from the UK and I'm visiting the US for my summer vacation this year
and plan to do some flying from a flying school in Naples Florida. I have
a
UK and US license and all I want is a bi-annual/check ride and then rent a
plane for a couple of trips around the general area, maybe even venture
down
to Key West as I have done before..

Do I need to obtain a US visa for this?

Nigel

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.

A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He made
an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR checkride
the same day.

someone was pulling your friend's leg.

I happen to have both, i.e., a private certificate established on the
basis of a foreign licence (under 14 CFR 61.75), and a commercial
certificate I later earned here (in California) -- having both is possible
because I obtained the FAA commercial certificate *after* getting the
private certificate under 61.75 and it contains a glider rating that I do
not have on my commercial certificate (yet! :-); the specifics are
spelled out in 14 CFR 61.75(b)(3) (check out how it is worded!), as well
as the "Pilot Examiner's Handbook", Order 8710.3C, paragraph 53.H.2, pp.5-16);

anyway, certificates issued under 61.75 have not, to my knowledge,
been revoked (unless your friend benefits from special considerations
so to speak);

--Sylvain

"Sylvain" wrote in message
om...
"Steve Foley" wrote in message
You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.

A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He
made
an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR
checkride
the same day.

someone was pulling your friend's leg.

I happen to have both, i.e., a private certificate established on the
basis of a foreign licence (under 14 CFR 61.75), and a commercial
certificate I later earned here (in California) -- having both is
possible
because I obtained the FAA commercial certificate *after* getting the
private certificate under 61.75 and it contains a glider rating that I do
not have on my commercial certificate (yet! :-); the specifics are
spelled out in 14 CFR 61.75(b)(3) (check out how it is worded!), as well
as the "Pilot Examiner's Handbook", Order 8710.3C, paragraph 53.H.2,
pp.5-16);

anyway, certificates issued under 61.75 have not, to my knowledge,
been revoked (unless your friend benefits from special considerations
so to speak);

The only way they will have been revoked is if the licence number of the
foreign licence has changed. The 61.75 certificate refers to the foreign
certificate.
Many European licence numbers including the UK have changed as a result of
the JAA changes. If the number has changed then the FAA 61.75 needs to be re
issued. To do this, then one has to go through the verification process.

http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/flightinstruction/index.cfm

There is a FAA FAQ which is very clear on this matter extract below:

QUESTION: My question involves whether the procedures set forth in Notice
8700.15 apply to this German citizen who currently holds a § 61.75 private
pilot certificate that lists the license number of his old German pilot
license. His new German pilot license has a different number. The person
wants to correct his § 61.75 private pilot certificate and have it reissued
to reflect the license number of his new German pilot license. Do the
application requirements and procedures set forth in Notice 8700.15 apply?



ANSWER: Ref. § 61.75(a) and (b)(2) and FAA Notice 8700.15, Page 10,
paragraph 4. S(1); Yes, the application requirements and procedures set
forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 apply even if the application is for a
re-issuance of a § 61.75 private pilot certificate on account of a numbering
change in the person's foreign pilot license. The basis for my answer is
predicated on paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15 where it states ". .
..A person who is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating on the basis
of a foreign license must be informed that he or she should try to pre-apply
for that pilot certificate at least 60 days before arriving at the
designated FAA FSDO where the applicant expects to receive the U.S. pilot
certificate . . ."



Additionally, paragraph 3 ("Applicability") in FAA Notice 8700.15
establishes that FAA Notice 8700.15 applies to the issuance of ". . . U.S.
pilot certificates and ratings to persons who apply on the basis of their
foreign pilot licenses . . ."



So, in effect, the person ". . . is applying for a U.S. pilot
certificate/ratings on the basis of a foreign license . . ." [i.e.,
paragraph 4. S(1) in FAA Notice 8700.15] when the person makes application
for a U.S. pilot certificate on account of a numbering change in his/her
foreign pilot license.



In a review of this question with Emily White, FAA Flight Standards'
International Liaison Staff, AFS-50, she further verified the answer as she
stated:



"This is how we have been treating the issuance of § 61.75 pilot
certificates before the need to verify the authenticity of foreign pilot
licenses. With the introduction of JAR-FCL in Europe, some of the countries
had to issue new pilot license numbers to their airmen. In those cases, we
and the foreign civil aviation authority have determined it is a new
underlying foreign pilot license and thus the § 61.75 pilot certificate on
which the foreign pilot license was based was no longer valid. Thus, they
need to get a new § 61.75 pilot certificate based on their "new" foreign
pilot license."

{Q&A-522}


The same group of FAQs make it clear that if you want to add a rating to a
61.75 certificate you must present the valid verification letter to the DPE.
If there is no valid verification letter, then the only route is to get an
unrestricted private certificate and comply with the Part 61 requirements.
The likelihood is that most JAA licences do (night flying the only problem)
and then add the instrument certificate. Ie doing boths tests in short
order.

Question: Do the procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 apply to persons
who are applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating(s) and are not applying
on the basis of their foreign pilot license?



Answer: No, The procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15 do not apply to
a person who is applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating(s) and is not
applying on the basis of their foreign pilot license. A person who is
applying for a U.S. pilot certificate/rating(s) on the basis of meeting the
appropriate Part 61 certification requirements and is not using their
foreign pilot license as the basis for the application then that person need
not comply with the procedures set forth in FAA Notice 8700.15. However,
this answer may be subject to change in the future because the
Transportation Security Agency is constantly requiring the FAA to make
changes on the basis of National security. At this time there are several
proposals under consideration that may require the FAA to change its
application and certification process for non-U.S. citizens. The United
States is at war and have been ever since September 11, 2001, so we may need
to revise our policies and procedures in the future in the interest of
National security. If there needs to be a change to our application and
certification process for non-U.S. citizens, the Airmen Certification
Branch, AFS-760 and the Certification Branch, AFS-840 are the responsible
offices for notifying you.



Hope this is helpful for the full FAQ I suggest you go he



http://www.faa.gov/AVR/AFS/AFS800/DOCS/pt61FAQ.doc

"S Green" wrote in message

The only way they will have been revoked is if the licence number of the
foreign licence has changed. The 61.75 certificate refers to the foreign
certificate.
Many European licence numbers including the UK have changed as a result of
the JAA changes. If the number has changed then the FAA 61.75 needs to be re
issued. To do this, then one has to go through the verification process.

I did hear the same rumor at the time and did call the CAA in Gatwick to
find out (since my foreign license is British); there was no change in
numbers of licenses due to the JAA changes (the last change in licenses
numbers the nice lady I talked to was aware of was way older than that);
so this is definitely not the case.

what might happen however, is if someone holding a British (or other
JAA country) license did chose to exchange it for a JAR one, then the
number would have indeed changed (plus a number of annoying side effects,
such as having a license which now expires as opposed to the good ol' PPL(A)
which was basically valid forever unless surrendered or revoked a bit like
the FAA certificates are; i.e., valid doesn't necessarily mean current,
but 61.75 only requires the foreign license to be valid, but I am digressing
again here);

--Sylvain

"Sylvain" wrote in message
om...
"S Green" wrote in message

The only way they will have been revoked is if the licence number of the
foreign licence has changed. The 61.75 certificate refers to the foreign
certificate.
Many European licence numbers including the UK have changed as a result
of
the JAA changes. If the number has changed then the FAA 61.75 needs to
be re
issued. To do this, then one has to go through the verification process.

I did hear the same rumor at the time and did call the CAA in Gatwick to
find out (since my foreign license is British); there was no change in
numbers of licenses due to the JAA changes (the last change in licenses
numbers the nice lady I talked to was aware of was way older than that);
so this is definitely not the case.

what might happen however, is if someone holding a British (or other
JAA country) license did chose to exchange it for a JAR one, then the
number would have indeed changed (plus a number of annoying side effects,
such as having a license which now expires as opposed to the good ol'
PPL(A)
which was basically valid forever unless surrendered or revoked a bit like
the FAA certificates are; i.e., valid doesn't necessarily mean current,
but 61.75 only requires the foreign license to be valid, but I am
digressing
again here);

--Sylvain

What happens is that if you have an old brown licence Pre 1994 and tell the
CAA you have moved or got a new rating, then you get a nice new white paper
bundle and the licence number is different based on the old medical
reference.

It sort of creeps up on you.

"Steve Foley" wrote in message ...
You may not have a US certificate anymore, you'll need to check.

A friend of mine had a US certificate based (PP-ASEL) on a UK PPL. He made
an appointment for an IFR checkride and was told that all certs based on
foreign licenses had been revoked. He had to take the PP and IR checkride
the same day.


I think something got lost in the translation. I believe there may
have also been a temporary prohibitation on issuing US private
certificates on the bases of foreign tickets. That's probably what
happened to your friend. He probably showed up to get a US ticket on
the bases of his UK and then take the checkride but the FSDO was
temporarily unable to do the issuance. BTW: What good is the IFR
rating in the U.K.? Is it true you need to have an ATP to fly real IFR
in the U.K. in a U.K. registered aircraft?

-Robert