Soft-field landing in C172

Ok, makes sense. I've landed on some extremely sluschy surfaces back in
sweden in the pawnee and at one point we were taking off (2100' runway)
and half way on the takeoff roll I hit a massive pool of water that
wasn't visible in the grass. Lost me 20 kts of airspeed easily.
Fortunately I braked and the glider disconnected and we were fine.
After that I did tell them that we'd had enough for the day though, and
my poor plane was covered in grass and mud.

Glider pilots can be very persistent when they've taken the time to
come out and assemble their planes :-)

On 2004-03-25 08:14:15 -0500, "Maule Driver"
said:

I live on a grass/dirt 3300 foot strip. Not short but after rain can be
very soft. I've learned that 'soft' covers a lot of territory. Slippery
grass, pull the wheels off mud and a bunch of variations in between.

I think the 'keeping a little power-on" during the flare has value in
certain (a lot of?) aircraft. When I was working out in a 60's Mooney, it
was clear that without power, a minimum speed landing would result in
immediate nose wheel contact unless a little power was held. That's a bad
thing in mud. Among other things it may be the last thing you see clearly
until the rags come out.

A little power seems to be a good thing in my tailwheel Maule. When doing
minimum speed stuff, it is well known that the Maule will run out of
elevator authority (and get into a high descent rate condition if high).
The fix is a little power. When I'm landing in the mud, I want go be able
to plant that tailwheel with full back elevator in order to avoid a mud
encounter followed by any nosing over, and a little power seems to help keep
some positive elevator authority. But that's just my sense of things.
Ironically, a little power and down elevator is the key to keeping the
tailwheel unstuck at taxi speeds but (see nose over).

Power and elevator control (and flaps) is the key to soft field *operations*
including taxi, TO and Landing. A C172 may be fine with a power-off touch
down but if you do a beautiful minimum speed full stall landing, you still
have options but flying may not be one of them. Clearly some other aircraft
require carrying a little power during such landings which makes the
technique a valuable one to learn and be proficient at.

I'm not a CFI.
"Magnus" wrote in message
...
Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

"Magnus" wrote in message
...
Ok, makes sense. I've landed on some extremely sluschy surfaces back in
sweden in the pawnee and at one point we were taking off (2100' runway)
and half way on the takeoff roll I hit a massive pool of water that
wasn't visible in the grass. Lost me 20 kts of airspeed easily.
Fortunately I braked and the glider disconnected and we were fine.
After that I did tell them that we'd had enough for the day though, and
my poor plane was covered in grass and mud.

Glider pilots can be very persistent when they've taken the time to
come out and assemble their planes :-)

As a former LS6b and PIK20b driver, you bet we are! Heck, you guys have
engines... we expect you to get it up no matter what if the weather is
soarable. :-))

Bill

Remove wheel pants when operating from turf on a regular basis. Wet
grass can accumulate and become trapped in the wheel pant and grab the
wheel at a very inopportune moment.

Magnus wrote:

Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

It is the discharge air from the propeller providing airflow over the
horizontal stabilizer/elevator that keeps the nosewheel out of the muck.
Remove that airflow by going to idle and you are complicating your life.

Bob Gardner

"Magnus" wrote in message
...
Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:c0F8c.7740$JO3.14266@attbi_s04...
It is the discharge air from the propeller providing airflow over the
horizontal stabilizer/elevator that keeps the nosewheel out of the muck.
Remove that airflow by going to idle and you are complicating your life.

Bob Gardner

Better yet, get rid of the nose wheel.



"Magnus" wrote in message
...
Just curious how you guys perform this maneuver. From what I've been
taught you should flare with a little power still in to soften the
touchdown, and then keep rolling to avoid digging yourself into the
runway surface.

I just think that it should be possible to land anyway, without any
power like you normally land. Just keep the plane airborne as long as
possible and keep the nosewheel up as long as you can. Keeping power in
just eats up a lot of runway it seems.

I mean, how often do you happen to find a rough and long field.
Ususally if a soft-field landing is required, it's a pretty short field
too out in the bush somewhere.

Approach like a short-field and flare as long as possible to soften the
touchdown would be my way of doing it.

Dave Stadt wrote:

Better yet, get rid of the nose wheel.

Easily done if you don't keep it out of the mud.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dave Stadt wrote:

Better yet, get rid of the nose wheel.

Easily done if you don't keep it out of the mud.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that
would
not yield to the tongue.

That also solves the problem of running off the end of the runway.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dave Stadt wrote:

Better yet, get rid of the nose wheel.

Easily done if you don't keep it out of the mud.

:-)

I think the nosewheel legs are stronger than some people
who manage to break them would illustrate. One of the
students at the flight school where I learnt to fly managed
to leave the runway onto the grass at full power. Still at
full power he braked hard, dug the nosewheel in and
flipped the plane over. The nosewheel leg remained firmly
attached but was now pointing upwards.

This was a 150.

Paul

In article , Paul Sengupta wrote:
I think the nosewheel legs are stronger than some people
who manage to break them would illustrate.

There are nosewheels and there are nosewheels. Some, like on C150s,
Tripacers, Musketeers etc. are pretty tough (IIRC, the Musketeer
nosegear is the same as the mains minus a brake). Others are bent bits
of wire with a wheel hanging off the end (Grumman AA5). And others are
strong enough, but the bit they attach to has a tendency to get bent
when mistreated (C182 firewalls).

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

The nosewheel structure on a Cessna is pretty strong,
but digging it in can cause:

a). A prop strike
b). A bent firewall
c). All of the above

I agree with Dave... Nosewheels should be outlawed!!!
Get a taildragger!!!

John Price
CFII/AGI/IGI
home.att.net/~jm.price

"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
...

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Dave Stadt wrote:

Better yet, get rid of the nose wheel.

Easily done if you don't keep it out of the mud.

:-)

I think the nosewheel legs are stronger than some people
who manage to break them would illustrate. One of the
students at the flight school where I learnt to fly managed
to leave the runway onto the grass at full power. Still at
full power he braked hard, dug the nosewheel in and
flipped the plane over. The nosewheel leg remained firmly
attached but was now pointing upwards.

This was a 150.

Paul