500 hours!

At least in the Midwest, there are still old-fashioned CFIs around who will
solo you at less than 10 hours, and finish you up by 40 - 45.

Well, there may be a few, but I believe typical is 20/60 hours, maybe
higher.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

in article , Wizard of
Draws at wrote on 4/2/04 5:16 PM:

On 4/2/04 9:39 AM, in article %Webc.165213$po.972319@attbi_s52, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Congrats. It's fun to watch the hours tick off, over the years.

I remember when I was a student, and there was an instrument student at my
FBO that had (*gasp!*) TWO HUNDRED HOURS.

I thought he was God himself.

Now, with 800-some hours, and growing about 100 per year, I realize how
little he knew, and how REALLY little I knew.

In fact, I'm sometimes amazed that they let any of us fly at all, with just
40-something hours on the clock...

;-)

I look back and wonder how my instructor could have let me solo at 12 hours.
Signing off a student to solo or take a checkride, have to be some of the
scariest moments in aviation.

This brings up a question I have regarding the tabulation of hours. Looking
at my logbook, I had 11.3 hours prior to the lesson in which I first soloed.
The lesson itself lasted a total of 1.2 hours, of which .3 was solo,
sandwiched in between some dual.

Okay, so did I solo at 11.3 hours, or did I solo at 12.5 hours?

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
Okay, so did I solo at 11.3 hours, or did I solo at 12.5 hours?

I don't understand why you need to ask. The phrase "I soloed at x hours"
is equivalent to "I had flown x hours before I flew solo". It's obvious
how many hours you had before you flew solo, and the number sure as heck
isn't 11.3.

in article , Peter Duniho at
wrote on 4/3/04 9:15 AM:

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
Okay, so did I solo at 11.3 hours, or did I solo at 12.5 hours?

I don't understand why you need to ask. The phrase "I soloed at x hours"
is equivalent to "I had flown x hours before I flew solo". It's obvious
how many hours you had before you flew solo, and the number sure as heck
isn't 11.3.

Hmmm, so you're saying it's a number somewhere between 11.3 and 12.5? So why
is it that so many people are confidently able to state, "I soloed at
exactly such-and-such hours", when in fact their circumstances were likely
similar to mine?

I know, it's a minor semantic quibble, but I'm honestly interested in how
people interpret this.

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, so you're saying it's a number somewhere between 11.3 and 12.5? So
why
is it that so many people are confidently able to state, "I soloed at
exactly such-and-such hours", when in fact their circumstances were likely
similar to mine?

Let's ignore for the moment the fact that comparing time-to-solo numbers is
dumb anyway, given the vast disparity in the quality of instructors, the
quality of students, and various factors out of either's control (weather,
distance of practice area, other traffic, etc.). I also don't know why it's
hard for you to figure out what the number for you is, but I'll accept that
it is.

In your example, at the point in time at which you were permitted to act as
the solo pilot in command of the airplane, you had already received 11.3
hours of dual prior to that flight, plus another 0.9 hours of dual that
flight. If you add the two numbers, you get 12.2 hours of dual instruction
prior to your solo.

The reason that so many people are confidently able to state "I soloed at
exactly such-and-such hours" is that they have kept an accurate record of
their dual instruction hours up to that point, and they are able to add the
hours together to come up with a single cumulative figure.

If that still doesn't answer your question, please describe as precisely as
you can what part is still confusing, and I'll be happy to try to clarify
the answer.

Pete

in article , Peter Duniho at
wrote on 4/3/04 1:24 PM:

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, so you're saying it's a number somewhere between 11.3 and 12.5? So
why
is it that so many people are confidently able to state, "I soloed at
exactly such-and-such hours", when in fact their circumstances were likely
similar to mine?

Let's ignore for the moment the fact that comparing time-to-solo numbers is
dumb anyway, given the vast disparity in the quality of instructors, the
quality of students, and various factors out of either's control (weather,
distance of practice area, other traffic, etc.). I also don't know why it's
hard for you to figure out what the number for you is, but I'll accept that
it is.

Oh, trust me, I'm not trying to turn this into a "least hours to solo"
competition or anything. It's just that I'm often asked, "How many hours did
you have before you soloed?", and I'd like to give an accurate answer,
that's all.

In your example, at the point in time at which you were permitted to act as
the solo pilot in command of the airplane, you had already received 11.3
hours of dual prior to that flight, plus another 0.9 hours of dual that
flight. If you add the two numbers, you get 12.2 hours of dual instruction
prior to your solo.

Well, not exactly. You see, at the start of the lesson in question, I
received some dual instruction for an undetermined length of time, then I
soloed for .3 hours, then I received some more dual instruction flying back
to the home airport. Before the lesson I had 11.3 hours, and after it I had
12.5 hours. That's why I don't know exactly how many hours I had prior to
solo.

The reason that so many people are confidently able to state "I soloed at
exactly such-and-such hours" is that they have kept an accurate record of
their dual instruction hours up to that point, and they are able to add the
hours together to come up with a single cumulative figure.

If that still doesn't answer your question, please describe as precisely as
you can what part is still confusing, and I'll be happy to try to clarify
the answer.

Pete

See above.

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
in article , Peter Duniho at
wrote on 4/3/04 1:24 PM:

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, so you're saying it's a number somewhere between 11.3 and 12.5?
So
why
is it that so many people are confidently able to state, "I soloed at
exactly such-and-such hours", when in fact their circumstances were
likely
similar to mine?

Let's ignore for the moment the fact that comparing time-to-solo numbers
is
dumb anyway, given the vast disparity in the quality of instructors, the
quality of students, and various factors out of either's control
(weather,
distance of practice area, other traffic, etc.). I also don't know why
it's
hard for you to figure out what the number for you is, but I'll accept
that
it is.

Oh, trust me, I'm not trying to turn this into a "least hours to solo"
competition or anything. It's just that I'm often asked, "How many hours
did
you have before you soloed?", and I'd like to give an accurate answer,
that's all.

In your example, at the point in time at which you were permitted to act
as
the solo pilot in command of the airplane, you had already received 11.3
hours of dual prior to that flight, plus another 0.9 hours of dual that
flight. If you add the two numbers, you get 12.2 hours of dual
instruction
prior to your solo.

Well, not exactly. You see, at the start of the lesson in question, I
received some dual instruction for an undetermined length of time, then I
soloed for .3 hours, then I received some more dual instruction flying
back
to the home airport. Before the lesson I had 11.3 hours, and after it I
had
12.5 hours. That's why I don't know exactly how many hours I had prior to
solo.


Just say 12 hours and be done with it! Or, "around 10 hours or so"! Or,
"under 15 hours"! Just pick your number, and stick by it!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

in article , John Clonts at
wrote on 4/3/04 6:58 PM:


"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...

Well, not exactly. You see, at the start of the lesson in question, I
received some dual instruction for an undetermined length of time, then I
soloed for .3 hours, then I received some more dual instruction flying
back
to the home airport. Before the lesson I had 11.3 hours, and after it I
had
12.5 hours. That's why I don't know exactly how many hours I had prior to
solo.


Just say 12 hours and be done with it! Or, "around 10 hours or so"! Or,
"under 15 hours"! Just pick your number, and stick by it!

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

I believe that's the best answer I've received so far. Thanks.

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
[...]
Well, not exactly. You see, at the start of the lesson in question, I
received some dual instruction for an undetermined length of time, then I
soloed for .3 hours, then I received some more dual instruction flying
back
to the home airport. Before the lesson I had 11.3 hours, and after it I
had
12.5 hours. That's why I don't know exactly how many hours I had prior to
solo.

If you don't provide accurate information, you don't get accurate answers.

As for your "undetermined length of time", I guess that's your own fault for
not logging the time. But the rest of us actually keep track of time, and
know when things start and stop.

I don't see how you could know you flew solo for 0.3 hours without knowing
the time at which you started your solo flight and the time at which you
ended it. And if you know when you started your solo flight, you ought to
be able to know when you ended the dual instruction prior to it. But I
guess if you don't know, you just don't know.

The answer to your question regarding how the rest of us know is that we
actually bothered to pay attention. We kept track of the time. In many
cases, the solo flight was done at the home base airport, and after the last
solo landing, the student simply taxied back to parking. So obviously in
that very common case, it would be trivial for someone who knows how much
solo time they had to also know how much dual instruction they had prior.

Bottom line: you say "I'd like to give an accurate answer". The problem in
your case is that you didn't track your time well enough to give an accurate
answer. I don't see how you can resolve the issue now. You have a
fundamental lack of information necessary to do what you want to do, and
unless you figure out a way to recover that information from other sources,
there's nothing you can do about it. Certainly none of us have any way to
figure it out for you.

Pete

in article , Peter Duniho at
wrote on 4/3/04 7:25 PM:

"Philip Sondericker" wrote in message
...
[...]
Well, not exactly. You see, at the start of the lesson in question, I
received some dual instruction for an undetermined length of time, then I
soloed for .3 hours, then I received some more dual instruction flying
back
to the home airport. Before the lesson I had 11.3 hours, and after it I
had
12.5 hours. That's why I don't know exactly how many hours I had prior to
solo.

If you don't provide accurate information, you don't get accurate answers.

As for your "undetermined length of time", I guess that's your own fault for
not logging the time. But the rest of us actually keep track of time, and
know when things start and stop.

I don't see how you could know you flew solo for 0.3 hours without knowing
the time at which you started your solo flight and the time at which you
ended it. And if you know when you started your solo flight, you ought to
be able to know when you ended the dual instruction prior to it. But I
guess if you don't know, you just don't know.

The answer to your question regarding how the rest of us know is that we
actually bothered to pay attention. We kept track of the time. In many
cases, the solo flight was done at the home base airport, and after the last
solo landing, the student simply taxied back to parking. So obviously in
that very common case, it would be trivial for someone who knows how much
solo time they had to also know how much dual instruction they had prior.

Bottom line: you say "I'd like to give an accurate answer". The problem in
your case is that you didn't track your time well enough to give an accurate
answer. I don't see how you can resolve the issue now. You have a
fundamental lack of information necessary to do what you want to do, and
unless you figure out a way to recover that information from other sources,
there's nothing you can do about it. Certainly none of us have any way to
figure it out for you.

Pete

Hey, that's cool Pete. I hope I didn't upset you.