Is this nuts, or what?

In article 76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

Why not? The skydivers are at Z-hills, not Lakeland. Z-Hills has
skydiving 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year.

I was at Z-hills in '94. Broke off from a jump and was tracking away as
a flight of 4 aircraft passed under us...I think they were RV's. It
always amazes me how many pilots fly around with their heads "up and
locked". Flying through a skydiving area is just dumb.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

In article 76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53,
Jay Honeck wrote:

"If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
miles northwest of Lakeland,

No problem, just explain how well pilots study and follow the Osh/SNF
NOTAMs for arrivals and then tell the jumpers that the pilots will
have access to a secondary NOTAM that will mention their jumping.
That should make the situation crystal clear for them.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:56:51 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

From AvWeb:

"If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's 332-degree radial. The airport
will be the site of a world record attempt involving 140 skydivers and seven
jump aircraft. Getting caught in the middle could prove ... messy."

It may be the site involving a world record attempt but that many in
the air at Sypher Hills is not uncommon. It's one of the major
skydiving locations in the country.

We are planning to fly into Sun N Fun next week. Last year we were forced
to land short, because the field was closed -- and Zephyr Hills was the most
logical airport when coming from the north. It was an absolute zoo getting
in there, because EVERYONE was stuck doing the same thing.

Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having

Other than being a record attempt the number is nothing new for them
and even then record attempts are being made quite regularly.

When I was down there they were making three trips an hour with three
twin turboprops hauling 20 jumpers each and one run an hour with a
DC-3 hauling 40 jumpers. That could easily run a 100 in the air at one
time and 220 per hour. They do this from dawn till dusk as long as
the weather is good enough to jump. BTW The turboprops were beating
most of their jumpers to the ground.

It's strange to hear, "jumpers away" at 13,000 and almost in the same
breath XXX is down wind for 18 at 10,000, followed by XXX is base for
18 at 5000, followed by XXX turning final. They will make that
descent in less time than most of us could imagine doing a regular
pattern. Seems like I figured their rate of descent to be as high as
120 MPH (over 10,000 FPM averages over 5000 FPM) at points. Soooo
You have a lot more to watch out for than looking for can-oh-pees...

a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled

You better be visualizing those big twins dropping like missiles! As
I said their down wind is close to 10,000 feet.

field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

You have to fit in. To top it off the odds of finding a place to
stay, or spend the night are next to nil that close to Lakeland.

Unless things have changed you are lucky to get an answer out of
unicom/ctaf. I always talk to the jump planes.

BTW, if they make you nervous, think of how they feel with a bunch of
planes coming in that are not used to mixing it up with skydivers and
particularly at one of the busiest skydiving centers in the nation.
Last I heard there were two jump schools there.

Oh! When headed South, if your flight path is any where near Zypher
Hills, pass well to the East as they abut Tampa Bay's airspace on the
West.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:14:48 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

They're probably saying the same thing about Sun'n Fun. With just
as much justification.


Hmmm...., hasn't Sun 'n Fun been at that same location for some 25 years or
so?

And I believe the jump schools at Zypher Hills as well.

They are worried about 140 jumpers in the air. Another figure to
consider is on a 10 hour day you can expect over 2,000 if they run 220
an hour That is assuming they are still running at the rate they
were the last time I was down there, but that was a few years back.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:07:42 -0800, Dale wrote:

In article 76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

Why not? The skydivers are at Z-hills, not Lakeland. Z-Hills has
skydiving 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year.

I was at Z-hills in '94. Broke off from a jump and was tracking away as
a flight of 4 aircraft passed under us...I think they were RV's. It
always amazes me how many pilots fly around with their heads "up and
locked". Flying through a skydiving area is just dumb.

Specially when it's so easy to coordinate with the jump planes if you
are going into that airport.

However when "passing through" I'd give it a wide berth.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Just like diverting to Fond Du Lac when OSH is not taking traffic and
finding racers circling the airport at 500 feet.
--
Gene Seibel
Confessions of a Pilot - http://pad39a.com/publishing/
Because I fly, I envy no one.



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:76bdc.215540$_w.2079914@attbi_s53...
From AvWeb:

"If you're planning on flying into Lakeland, Fla., for Sun 'n Fun, be on the
alert for large formation skydiving over Zephyrhills Airport between April
14 and April 18, sunrise to sunset. Zephyrhills (ZPH) is located 16 nautical
miles northwest of Lakeland, on Lakeland's 332-degree radial. The airport
will be the site of a world record attempt involving 140 skydivers and seven
jump aircraft. Getting caught in the middle could prove ... messy."

We are planning to fly into Sun N Fun next week. Last year we were forced
to land short, because the field was closed -- and Zephyr Hills was the most
logical airport when coming from the north. It was an absolute zoo getting
in there, because EVERYONE was stuck doing the same thing.

Now they're going to try to stick 140 skydivers into this mix? I'm having
a hard time visualizing 20 aircraft coming into land -- at an uncontrolled
field -- with 140 meat-bombs under canopy... Seems like they might have
tried to find a better location and/or time for this record attempt?

Just like diverting to Fond Du Lac when OSH is not taking traffic and
finding racers circling the airport at 500 feet.

Last year at OSH we got stuck in a "hold in place" pattern because the air
racers were arriving.

Last year at SNF we got stuck in a "hold around the lake" pattern because
the airport was late in re-opening after the air show.

All these are expected and normal -- but 140 skydivers? During probably THE
busiest week for air traffic in the Zephyr Hills area?

Seems downright ignorant for the organizers to do. But we'll give 'em a
wide berth!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

From: EDR
Date: 4/8/04 9:56 AM Central Daylight Time

With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).

Yous guys gotta get that notion out of your heads "FLOWN." Ya might change
your path a couple of degrees but ya ain't a flying. And ya ain't never gonna.
A rock is a Rock, is a Rock, is a Rock. mac

In article , Mackfly
wrote:

From: EDR
Date: 4/8/04 9:56 AM Central Daylight Time

With the surface area of 140 bodies linked together, the formation can
be "flown" (until it loses shape and integrity).

Yous guys gotta get that notion out of your heads "FLOWN." Ya might change
your path a couple of degrees but ya ain't a flying. And ya ain't never
gonna.
A rock is a Rock, is a Rock, is a Rock. mac

Wellll... back in the 70's there was theoretical discussion as to just
how large a formation was need to actually "land".

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

I disagree.

It's not a matter of opinion.

I disagree there, too.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".