More Blackbird Trivia

The International airspace only goes up to 60,000; consequently, everything
above that is simply undefined. That's the point. There's no rules that
lets a nation regulate airspace above Class A.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
So where does it say that airspace above FL600 is "international
airspace"?

Mike
MU-2


"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:aFMqc.78028$536.12851446@attbi_s03...
ICAO -- something like "International Council on Aircraft Operations".
They define Class-A, class-B, etc. Not to mention METARs and the like.
USA adopted these in 1992 IIRC.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Where did you come up with this definition or "international airspace"
or
even the term?

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:dKLqc.77875$536.12815683@attbi_s03...
Doesn't "overflight" mean within international airspace? Class-A
goes
upto
60,000 ft and the Blackbird could fly at 85,000. So it was
possible
for
it
to overfly Russia above international airspace. But did the
Agreement
write that out? If so, how was airspace and overflight defined?
E.g.,
is
the moon overflying us?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsGKqc.34420$6f5.3418116@attbi_s54...
After our last discussion about the SR-71 Blackbird, a debate
ensued
as
to
whether the Blackbird actually overflew Soviet airspace, in direct
violation
of the agreement the U.S. signed with the U.S.S.R. after the
Francis
Gary
Powers incident. This agreement forbade overflights.

I was under the impression that the U.S. *had* flown the SR-71
over
Russia -- so I decided to check with a friend who worked closely
with
the
Blackbird for over three decades. It turns out we're all correct,
sort
of...

Here's his response:

"Hi Jay, I am still out of town but will be home later this week.
The
Blackbird was banned from crossing Russia by a law congress passed
after
the
Gary Powers incident. We did however fly the D21 over there but it
was
not
a
complete crossing but an in and out mission. The SR71 did fly the
perimeters
and could obtain a lot of elint data that way around every edge of
Russia."

So there you have it. The Blackbird itself did not overfly
Russia --
but
the D21 (that weird-looking probe that was mounted on top of the
Blackbird,
between the two tails) did. It was not, however, a complete
crossing.

Or, at least, that's what the experts are willing to admit to us
at
this
point! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply that the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600. Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Mike
MU-2


"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:JISqc.25937$gr.2298343@attbi_s52...
The International airspace only goes up to 60,000; consequently,
everything
above that is simply undefined. That's the point. There's no rules that
lets a nation regulate airspace above Class A.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
So where does it say that airspace above FL600 is "international
airspace"?

Mike
MU-2


"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:aFMqc.78028$536.12851446@attbi_s03...
ICAO -- something like "International Council on Aircraft Operations".
They define Class-A, class-B, etc. Not to mention METARs and the
like.
USA adopted these in 1992 IIRC.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Where did you come up with this definition or "international
airspace"
or
even the term?

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:dKLqc.77875$536.12815683@attbi_s03...
Doesn't "overflight" mean within international airspace? Class-A
goes
upto
60,000 ft and the Blackbird could fly at 85,000. So it was
possible
for
it
to overfly Russia above international airspace. But did the
Agreement
write that out? If so, how was airspace and overflight defined?
E.g.,
is
the moon overflying us?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsGKqc.34420$6f5.3418116@attbi_s54...
After our last discussion about the SR-71 Blackbird, a debate
ensued
as
to
whether the Blackbird actually overflew Soviet airspace, in
direct
violation
of the agreement the U.S. signed with the U.S.S.R. after the
Francis
Gary
Powers incident. This agreement forbade overflights.

I was under the impression that the U.S. *had* flown the SR-71
over
Russia -- so I decided to check with a friend who worked closely
with
the
Blackbird for over three decades. It turns out we're all
correct,
sort
of...

Here's his response:

"Hi Jay, I am still out of town but will be home later this
week.
The
Blackbird was banned from crossing Russia by a law congress
passed
after
the
Gary Powers incident. We did however fly the D21 over there but
it
was
not
a
complete crossing but an in and out mission. The SR71 did fly
the
perimeters
and could obtain a lot of elint data that way around every edge
of
Russia."

So there you have it. The Blackbird itself did not overfly
Russia --
but
the D21 (that weird-looking probe that was mounted on top of the
Blackbird,
between the two tails) did. It was not, however, a complete
crossing.

Or, at least, that's what the experts are willing to admit to us
at
this
point! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply that
the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600.
Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Want to see a SR71 Black Bird fly in to McMinnville OR you can also see
the
Spruce Goose

SR-71s (and variants) are all over now. Closest to me is Minnesota, but
there's one in Omaha, NE and one in Dayton, OH, too.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I think space begins by agreement at 100km or something like that.

Mike
MU-2

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1C2rc.28555$gr.2591276@attbi_s52...
No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply that
the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600.
Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

What document and organization put forth this number? What nations have
agreed to it? What happens if a non-signator violates it? What court has
jurisdiction?

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
I think space begins by agreement at 100km or something like that.

Mike
MU-2

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1C2rc.28555$gr.2591276@attbi_s52...
No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply
that
the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600.
Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China
above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In a previous article, "Mike Rapoport" said:
I think space begins by agreement at 100km or something like that.

http://www.space.edu/projects/book/chapter3.html
Surely you say, some international body must have declared where space
begins. International law states that there is no definitive point where
the atmosphere ends and space begins. The major space powers accept the
following definition: Space begins at " the lowest perigee attained by
orbiting space vehicles..."

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
It's distinctly sub-optimal having a 70MPH pigeon explode all over
the inside of your vehicle.
-- Tanuki

In a previous article, "William W. Plummer" said:
agreed to it? What happens if a non-signator violates it? What court has
jurisdiction?

The International Court of Surface To Air Missiles.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Look! This trout makes a better hammer than that blob of marmalade!"
- Adam J. Thornton

Hopefully one of the controllers will chime in here and tell us what the
proceedure is if an unidentified aircraft is detected approaching the US
above FL600. It is probably greeted with a missle.

Nothing that I have seen or you have posted says that "international
airspace" begins at FL600 and anybody is free to overfly anywhere above this
altitude.

A practical definition of "space" is the lowest altitude where objects can
orbit which is around 100km.

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:nP3rc.5257$Vv.394570@attbi_s51...
What document and organization put forth this number? What nations have
agreed to it? What happens if a non-signator violates it? What court
has
jurisdiction?

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
I think space begins by agreement at 100km or something like that.

Mike
MU-2

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1C2rc.28555$gr.2591276@attbi_s52...
No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply
that
the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600.
Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China
above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:43:25 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:


Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?


google is your friend.

http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/FAQ/splawfaq.htm

#m

--
Martin!!! Maaaaartiiiin!!! Can you please flame this guy for me?
'HECTOP' in rec.aviation.piloting