Ventus 2cxa with FES

Dne torek, 15. april 2014 00:19:29 UTC+2 je oseba Mike the Strike napisala:
I suspect that there's not enough ground clearance to self-launch, but a vehicle launch to modest height plus a climb out on the electric motor might work (some weaker self-launchers use this technique, especially at high density altitudes).



No doubt the developers will let us know!



Mike

There is enough ground clearence for a selflaunch from concrete runway or smooth grass.

Dne torek, 15. april 2014 01:11:27 UTC+2 je oseba Greg Arnold napisala:
I wonder if they are using the CG tow hook, or if they have installed a

hook forward of that. I thought that you couldn't have a new glider

with only a CG hook in Europe.

There is a suitable space for a front hook below instrument panel, where is usualy located front battery. This battery is not required anymore.

Regards,

Luka

Dne torek, 15. april 2014 02:10:45 UTC+2 je oseba Steve Koerner napisala:
From a competition pilot point of view there would have to be a small drag penalty and a weight penalty. But both of those would seem to be pretty small in comparison to the competitive benefit that arises from the ability to stick to the course line and never have to be distracted by the need to deviate towards a landing option. I don't have experience to know, but I'm suspecting that the reliability of the FES might be sufficient that one could drive it straight into the boonies then flip the switch only at the last minute -- wouldn't that be exciting? You certainly can't do that with a gas engine.

You are right, at FES you can start engine last minute (1 second to full power), and it is exciting. Totaly different way of flying!

Regards,

Luka

Dne torek, 15. april 2014 02:26:24 UTC+2 je oseba Wolf Aviator napisala:
At 00:10 15 April 2014, Steve Koerner wrote:

From a competition pilot point of view there would have to be a

small drag

=

penalty and a weight penalty. But both of those would seem

to be pretty

sm=

all in comparison to the competitive benefit that arises from the

ability

t=

o stick to the course line and never have to be distracted by

the need to

d=

eviate towards a landing option. I don't have experience to

know, but I'm

=

suspecting that the reliability of the FES might be sufficient

that one

cou=

ld drive it straight into the boonies then flip the switch only at

the

last=

minute -- wouldn't that be exciting? You certainly can't do

that with a

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as engine.





But if you are 100km away from your airfield, especially if you

used your battery for take off, there will be little or no use of

FES.

I like the idea, but sorry, with current Li-ion batteries with max

150Wh/kg, this is not very promising technology. I am waiting for

Li-S, or Li-Air cells, then we can talk seriously about FES.

Regards

Wolf

http://youtu.be/WCej1kZInZk

As mentined above already at Ventus we have enough margin of max weight of non lifting parts, so that we were able to integrate bigger battery compartment box, so that we can fit inside bigger battery packs (50kg instead of standard 32kg). Range of 180km of level flight or 2000m altitude gain is more than sufficient!

Regards,

Luka

Luka, can it be installed on a Schleicher, in particular ASW27?

Ramy

On Monday, April 14, 2014 5:10:45 PM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
From a competition pilot point of view there would have to be a small drag penalty and a weight penalty. But both of those would seem to be pretty small in comparison to the competitive benefit that arises from the ability to stick to the course line and never have to be distracted by the need to deviate towards a landing option. I don't have experience to know, but I'm suspecting that the reliability of the FES might be sufficient that one could drive it straight into the boonies then flip the switch only at the last minute -- wouldn't that be exciting? You certainly can't do that with a gas engine.

" that one could drive it straight into the boonies then flip the switch only at the last minute -- wouldn't that be exciting?"

Deadly exciting, actually....

Dne torek, 15. april 2014 19:18:18 UTC+2 je oseba Ramy napisala:
Luka, can it be installed on a Schleicher, in particular ASW27?



Ramy

From techical point of view, I am sure we could find a solution. However in Europe under EASA is currently not possible, if there is no support from holder of Type Certificate. For USA under experimental might be possible, but we need a glider in our workshop for retrofit.

Regards,

Luka

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:41:22 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, April 14, 2014 5:10:45 PM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:

From a competition pilot point of view there would have to be a small drag penalty and a weight penalty. But both of those would seem to be pretty small in comparison to the competitive benefit that arises from the ability to stick to the course line and never have to be distracted by the need to deviate towards a landing option. I don't have experience to know, but I'm suspecting that the reliability of the FES might be sufficient that one could drive it straight into the boonies then flip the switch only at the last minute -- wouldn't that be exciting? You certainly can't do that with a gas engine.



" that one could drive it straight into the boonies then flip the switch only at the last minute -- wouldn't that be exciting?"



Deadly exciting, actually....

I sort of figured someone would snipe to that effect. So, jfitch, what is your reasoning that makes it 'deadly'?

Are there any known cases when an FES was intended to be initiated but failed to do so in flight?

It would seem to me that the FES has much going for it in terms of its potential for very high reliable operation. That would be the fact of no boom to raise and the fact that the power plant is an electric motor.

Single engine airplane pilots think nothing of routinely flying in the boonies with no landing alternate available to them. That contrasts with an FES glider pilot who might put himself into that situation only rarely.

I think all of us have had plenty of experience with both electric motors and gas motors and know the former to be vastly more reliable. Yet power pilots treat their gas engines as reliable enough to bet their life on. I'm suspecting that a reasoned glider pilot who has tested his FES startup many times in non-threatening circumstances would arrive at the same determination. The interesting part is that yields a significant advantage in competition.

From a general flying point of view, here in the UK we're never really that
far from an airfield.
The "limited" range still means you can get away from a Farmer's field to a
true airfield where the reception is likely to be better & chance of
breaking the glider much reduced.
As a Discus Turbo owner I'm very aware of the failure rate (mostly pilot
induced) of the current turbos.
I can't believe any electric sustainer could be less reliable

FES certainly appeals to me

Regards

KN

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:04:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Dne torek, 15. april 2014 19:18:18 UTC+2 je oseba Ramy napisala:

Luka, can it be installed on a Schleicher, in particular ASW27?







Ramy



From techical point of view, I am sure we could find a solution. However in Europe under EASA is currently not possible, if there is no support from holder of Type Certificate. For USA under experimental might be possible, but we need a glider in our workshop for retrofit.



Regards,



Luka

If you ever happen to get a Ventus B in your shop and install one of these in it, it would open up a whole new world to many folks with older gliders! Especially if the conversion could then be done by qualified repair shops around the world (including U.S.A.). If that could ever be a possibility, I wonder what the cost might be. This thread certainly has opened up ideas that so far have been mostly in dreams for many pilots.

Bob