Help With Medical Problem Identified During Medical Exam

Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say
a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as
passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed.

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Bill J" wrote in message
...

You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any
instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical.


Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to
exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as
PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class
medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course).

Pete

Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to the FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say
a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as
passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed.

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Bill J" wrote in message
...

You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any
instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical.


Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to
exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as
PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class
medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course).

Pete

Wrong Peter,

A CFI is being paid to *instruct*, not to fly. To instruct and act as
PIC, one needs only a third-class medical. This is well established,
and in fact was on on my CFI Oral.

You are mistaken. if you don't believe me, give your FDSO a buzz.

Cheers,

Cap


"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
"Bill J" wrote in message
...
You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any
instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical.

Not true. You need a 2nd class medical any time you are being paid to
exercise the privileges of your pilot certificate. If you are not acting as
PIC, you need no medical at all, but if you are, you need a 2nd class
medical (and a commercial pilot certificate, of course).

Pete

Yes, true! I have sent several of my CFI candidates to FSDO and that
very question was part of their oral. Acting as PIC and instructing, say
a primary student, you are not being paid to carry that student as
passenger, just to instruct, so no second class medical needed.

Bill J wrote in message ...
You DON'T need a second class to 'fly and instruct'. You can do any
instructing with a third class, or lots of instructing with no medical.


Yes, Bill, I know this well, since that was precisely what I was doing
I realize that what I wrote could be interpreted two ways. What I
intended it to say was 'luckily, I still had time remaining on my
third-class privileges, so that I could instruct using them. I was
just waiting for my second class prvilieges to be reinstated.

Cap


Captain Wubba wrote:



Hi. I recently went through a similar process, but for a medication
that was neither specifically approved nor disapproved for my
particular condition. I was approved, but it took 4 months. Luckily I
still had time remaining on the third-class privileges of my 'old'
medical...I was just waiting on my second class, so I could still fly
and instruct. Here is my advice, for what it is worth.

1. Contact the AOPA, as other have suggested. They were a Godsend with
me.

2. Ask your AME to refer the problem to the regional aeromedical
office first, not OK City. Regional is often much faster.

3. Get a letter from your primary care physician *specifically*
stating the following:
a. The underlying disorder is not incapacitating, nor does it increase
the liklihood of sudden incapacitation.
b. That you have been asymptomatic for the underlying disorder (if
true) for how long you have been.
c. Thet he knows of no issues regarding either the underlying disorder
or the treating medication that would make it unsafe in any way to
operate a car or aircraft.
d. That you suffer no side effects from the use of the medication, and
have not suffered any adverse reactions in how long.
e. That you have been stable on this medication for how long you have,
and that it has been effective in the treatment of your disorder.
f. That your physician has been treating you for however long he has
been.

4. If the FAA requests any reports from specialists, contact them
directly and advise them specifically of what the FAA is requesting.
Approve their response before they send it. I had one specialist make
this rambling complicated response that didn't address the specific
requests from the aeromedical office. had I not had a chance to
correct it, it may well have delayed my approval.

5. Keep copies of *everything*.

6. Read and understand FAR Part 67 well.

If you recently went to the AME, you almost certainly have not been
'denied'. You have probably been deferred. The folks I talked to at
the FAA aeromedical office told me the number one reason people do get
denied in the end is that the FAA does not receive the information it
needs. Doctors don't respond, or respond with the wrong kind of
information, or applicants just give up. If the regional flight
surgeon can't approve you, he'll defer you (in all liklihood) to OK
City. AT this point, after a couple of weeks, the AOPA can put a
'tracker' on your file. It seems to help it move along, and they can
advise you of the status and any problems that arise.

The guidelines for AMEs from the FAA itself indicates that being on a
non-approved medication is not automatically disqualifying.

And just a hard-earned piece of advice for next time. Ask around and
find out which AMEs in your area are more 'flexible' than others. Some
of these guys are hardcore jackasses...mine was. Some will work with
you and use common sense. Avoid the guys with a bad reputation...the
guy I went to is no longer on the referral list of either of the
flight schools at my airport. bad AMEs are like bad DEs...best to just
ignore tham and don't use them. Eventually they'll get the message
when they don't get any business.

But keep at it. I talked to a lot of people, including 3 different
AMEs during my process. Absent a few specific issues and medications,
the FAA Aeromedical office can be pretty flexible, and seems to
genuinely want to approve most applications.

Good luck,

Cap



"pjbphd" wrote in message news:9ZPZc.193012$sh.8999@fed1read06...

I'm taking flight lessons and was hoping to get my private pilot certificate
not too far down the line. Today I went in for my medical and was told by
the examiner I have a couple problems. Although I've been asymptomatic for
some time I'm on a medication that is not allowed by the FAA. When I went
to the physician who prescribed the medication (a non-pilot) he was shocked
that the FAA does not allow pilots to take it. Unfortunately he does not
recommend I discontinue its use. Nor is there an alternative medication
acceptable to the FAA.



Do I have any recourse other than discontinuing the medication even though
my physician recommends I stay on it or accepting that I won't be able to
fly. In other words is there any kind of appeal process provided I can get
the prescribing physician to state the medication does not impair my
abilities? This is particularly frustrating in that had I known the med was
not allowed, starting YESTERDAY I could have gone for a recreational pilots
certificate without a medical review, but now it's too late.



Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately from what I've found out,
including a conversation with AOPA, I'm screwed. Almost.

Here's the deal. I've been on Effoxor, an anti-depressant for a few years.
It's not allowed by the FAA. I tired to contact the AME today, but he was
out of the office. Hopefully I'll reach him next week. Nevertheless,
because I've disclosed it to him, it is my understanding that he has to
report it. Therefore, my only recourse is to discontinue it's use.
Something I'd like to do anyway, but it's pretty sad when a medication must
be discontinued to comply with an FAA rule. As I mentioned, I've been
asymptomatic for some time. I've also operated fine on high elevation
mountains (14,000 feet) while taking it with no problem.

This isn't the fault of the AME, he's just the bearer of bad news. It is
frustrating for me, but not depressing grin. It looks like at a minimum
it'll put my flight training on hold for six months, and maybe permanently.
If anyone has any additional advice, I'm open.

pjbphd

BTW, when the DR. who prescribed the Effexor read the FAR and AOPA
information stating that it is a disqualifying medication he said "That's
insane!" Then he said "Oh, I shouldn't say that!" grin


"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:9ZPZc.193012$sh.8999@fed1read06...
I'm taking flight lessons and was hoping to get my private pilot
certificate
not too far down the line. Today I went in for my medical and was told by
the examiner I have a couple problems. Although I've been asymptomatic
for
some time I'm on a medication that is not allowed by the FAA. When I went
to the physician who prescribed the medication (a non-pilot) he was
shocked
that the FAA does not allow pilots to take it. Unfortunately he does not
recommend I discontinue its use. Nor is there an alternative medication
acceptable to the FAA.



Do I have any recourse other than discontinuing the medication even though
my physician recommends I stay on it or accepting that I won't be able to
fly. In other words is there any kind of appeal process provided I can
get
the prescribing physician to state the medication does not impair my
abilities? This is particularly frustrating in that had I known the med
was
not allowed, starting YESTERDAY I could have gone for a recreational
pilots
certificate without a medical review, but now it's too late.



Any help will be appreciated.




--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd @ cox dot net

The FAA's mindset is about 30 years behind the times with regards to
their take on Psych meds.. once upon a time, the psych meds had such
crude mechanisms of action and their side effects were so severe, that
they were only used in the most severe of psychiatric illnesses..

Truth was.. back then, if you were messed up enough to need meds, then
you didnt need to be flying.

Fast forward a few decades.. the meds are much better.. more specific,
less side effects.. and they are no longer the sole realm of
Psychiatrists. Pediatricians and Family Practicioners hand out Prozac
and Zoloft like they are candy, and the cure-all for PMS, maladjustment
disorders and anything else they think a "feel good" pill would fix.
However, the FAA still has the approach that if you are out of kilter
enough to require medication, then you are out of kilter enough to be
denied a medical.

It doesnt matter what the disorder, how bad, how long, how well
adjusted.. what flavor medication.. if it's a psychotropic med, its
automatically disqualifying under that premise. Good luck with a waiver
based on demonstrated ability...

And this is not meant to be a slight to you, but rather to any newbies
who are following this... DO YOUR HOMEWORK... You wouldnt take a written
test or practical test unprepared... likewise, dont have any surprises
when you go to the medical test. Know what they are looking for, and
where you fit. AOPA is a great resource with regards to this.

Had you been aware of the limitations beforehand.. you could have
addressed in several possible ways.

1) nondisclosure (lying by omission).. which has a whole nother set of
consequences, if discovered.. but very well may have been the
"reasonable and prudent" course of action by a body of your peers..

2) a trial "drug holiday" managed closely by your primary doctor to see
if the condition requiring medication re-emerges to the point of
clinical significance (you get "sick" again)

3) a conscious decision not to pursue an exam by an AME and opt for
flying options that do not require such an exam (sport pilot)

Others have said, and I continue to say.. AOPA is a good resource with
regards to this, and many other certification related issues.

Dave

pjbphd wrote:

Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately from what I've found out,
including a conversation with AOPA, I'm screwed. Almost.

Here's the deal. I've been on Effoxor, an anti-depressant for a few years.
It's not allowed by the FAA. I tired to contact the AME today, but he was
out of the office. Hopefully I'll reach him next week. Nevertheless,
because I've disclosed it to him, it is my understanding that he has to
report it. Therefore, my only recourse is to discontinue it's use.
Something I'd like to do anyway, but it's pretty sad when a medication must
be discontinued to comply with an FAA rule. As I mentioned, I've been
asymptomatic for some time. I've also operated fine on high elevation
mountains (14,000 feet) while taking it with no problem.

This isn't the fault of the AME, he's just the bearer of bad news. It is
frustrating for me, but not depressing grin. It looks like at a minimum
it'll put my flight training on hold for six months, and maybe permanently.
If anyone has any additional advice, I'm open.

pjbphd

BTW, when the DR. who prescribed the Effexor read the FAR and AOPA
information stating that it is a disqualifying medication he said "That's
insane!" Then he said "Oh, I shouldn't say that!" grin


"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:9ZPZc.193012$sh.8999@fed1read06...

I'm taking flight lessons and was hoping to get my private pilot

certificate

not too far down the line. Today I went in for my medical and was told by
the examiner I have a couple problems. Although I've been asymptomatic

for

some time I'm on a medication that is not allowed by the FAA. When I went
to the physician who prescribed the medication (a non-pilot) he was

shocked

that the FAA does not allow pilots to take it. Unfortunately he does not
recommend I discontinue its use. Nor is there an alternative medication
acceptable to the FAA.



Do I have any recourse other than discontinuing the medication even though
my physician recommends I stay on it or accepting that I won't be able to
fly. In other words is there any kind of appeal process provided I can

get

the prescribing physician to state the medication does not impair my
abilities? This is particularly frustrating in that had I known the med

was

not allowed, starting YESTERDAY I could have gone for a recreational

pilots

certificate without a medical review, but now it's too late.



Any help will be appreciated.




--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd @ cox dot net

Dave S wrote in message nk.net...
Had you been aware of the limitations beforehand.. you could have
addressed in several possible ways.

1) nondisclosure (lying by omission).. which has a whole nother set of
consequences, if discovered.. but very well may have been the
"reasonable and prudent" course of action by a body of your peers..

A. Keep in mind that unless the FAA/Civil Aeromedical branch decides
to press criminal charges (unlikely), you will be going through the
administrative law system, which does not operate the way you learned
courts worked in civics class. You will be judged by an administrative
law judge, and will enjoy no presumption of innocence. If you end up
in this mess you may well find future certification impossible even if
they change the rules overall, or be fined generously.

B. OTOH I've read that they've actually been taking a more liberal
approach to "catch-up" reporting of old issues that pilots had hidden
on previous applications, the thinking being that it's better to
encourage people to come clean and handle things on the up-and-up. No
guarantee you'll get a medical but at least they probably won't press
charges. However, it would be wise to look at this carefully before
banking on it as an "out."

-cwk.

I've said it before here, with sport pilot out you MUST know if the meds
your taking etc are going to fail you or cause you trouble BEFORE going to
get your medical.

I believe EAA & AOPA have people who can help determine this (not 100% but
better than none)

Too late for this guy, but for the rest of us, better to be a sport pilot
than grounded.

ET - (not yet a student pilot)

I do not agree with most of the posters here. The FAA develops rules
based upon the pertinent facts and circumstances which are then
subjected to extensive review; they do not act capriciously. If one is
taking some med that is prohibited there may be some side effect which
may impair judgement or other function and that is why it is
prohibited. Someone mentioned Prossac as being dispensed like candy.
This is true. Prossac, is now a generic (read cheap) and is being
dispensed as a palliative for every possible situation (applicable or
not), freely. Prossac has side effects (suicidal tendencies for one)
that were "under reported" for a long time while it was still under
patent. Other meds may be the same.

Some over the counter meds are also hazardous and I believe prohibited.
Benadryl is a good example of this. If one is taking this med for
allegies on a regular basis one should not be flying because in
sustained doses it is a depressant and will certainly impair judgement
(I speak from personal expierience here).

Finally, I think the sport pilot rules eliminating the need for a
medical exam are not wise and will prove to be a taint on GA. People
who should not be flying solo for medical should not be flying solo.
In my opinion those folks should join a club and buddy up with an
unrestricted pilot or find a CFI(paid) to fly with.

Those are my 2cents.

Paul


pjbphd wrote:
I'm taking flight lessons and was hoping to get my private pilot
certificate
not too far down the line. Today I went in for my medical and was
told by
the examiner I have a couple problems. Although I've been
asymptomatic for
some time I'm on a medication that is not allowed by the FAA. When I
went
to the physician who prescribed the medication (a non-pilot) he was
shocked
that the FAA does not allow pilots to take it. Unfortunately he does
not
recommend I discontinue its use. Nor is there an alternative
medication
acceptable to the FAA.



Do I have any recourse other than discontinuing the medication even
though
my physician recommends I stay on it or accepting that I won't be
able to
fly. In other words is there any kind of appeal process provided I
can get
the prescribing physician to state the medication does not impair my
abilities? This is particularly frustrating in that had I known the
med was
not allowed, starting YESTERDAY I could have gone for a recreational
pilots
certificate without a medical review, but now it's too late.



Any help will be appreciated.




--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to
email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd @ cox dot net