Impaired Pilots

I think I know who you are talking about, he ALWAYS sounds like that
(confused). There aren't that many around Moline if he was local.

No way to know if he was local.

But, damn, if he was local, he sure sounded like he didn't know where the
runway was...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

1. When does a controller assume that a pilot is impaired?

Never. Why would they make that assumption?

They NEVER assume that a pilot is impaired, no matter the aural evidence?

That's pretty unlikely.

How could you possibly be required by law to do something about it? You
watched the last Seinfeld episode a few too many times, I think.

Actually, I may be the only person here who has never seen a single episode
of Seinfeld. (Although I *could* pick him out of a line-up, thanks to all
the media hoopla he received.)

It think it's funny that you think the moral question is easily answered.
It's not even an easy question to answer when you have witnessed, with
your
eyes, some clear cut violation of the FARs. But you think you can
reliably
assess impairment simply by what was said on the radio? What a crock.

True enough. I have no way of knowing whether the guy was impaired -- thus
the question.

He sure sounded like it to us.

Bottom line: It just seems unacceptable that the only way we can truly
*know* a pilot is impaired is to simply wait until they crash. I would
hope ATC would have some sort of protocol.

An example of someone actually DOING something about this sort of thing:
Eight (?) years ago we witnessed the Wisconsin State Patrol giving a pilot a
Breath-a-lyzer test at Lake Lawn Lodge, an uncontrolled strip at a resort in
Lake Delavan, WI. It seemed that the pilot (a former Tuskegee airman, no
less) had just landed his Mooney on the TAXIWAY, sending pilots scattering
in all directions.

We left before the results were in, but clearly SOMEONE had called the cops
on the guy.

I still wonder what ATC is required to do when they hear a clearly impaired
pilot on the radio. Anyone know?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:ZPm7d.303818$Fg5.16434@attbi_s53...
[...]
Bottom line: It just seems unacceptable that the only way we can truly
*know* a pilot is impaired is to simply wait until they crash.

Saying that you cannot determine that a pilot is impaired by how he sounds
on the radio is not the same as saying that "the only way we can truly
*know* a pilot is impaired is to simply wait until they crash".

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

[...]
I still wonder what ATC is required to do when they hear a clearly
impaired
pilot on the radio. Anyone know?

I told you. Even assuming you could use just a radio transmission to assess
impairment (and obviously you cannot), ATC isn't required to report it.

As Dale points out, controllers do sometimes take it upon themselves to
report something they feel is worth reporting. But there's no requirement
for them to do so, not in this sort of situation.

Pete

CO poisoning?

Jay Honeck wrote:

What you describe may not be a chemically induced impairment, but
possibly a speech impediment or psychological condition.


You know, I honestly hadn't considered that.

He sure sounded impaired to us -- and the non-standard radio terminology was
certainly peculiar -- but what the heck. I suppose he could just speak
differently than us.

Or, he was loaded.

I have to say that the notion of vigilanties flying around looking for
trouble bothers me tremendously. MYOB.

On 1 Oct 2004 07:43:48 -0700, (Jay Honeck) wrote:

snip

The fact that he was flying a $300K airplane seemed to eliminate the
possibility that he was just a nervous student flying into controlled
airspace for the first time, but I suppose it's possible.

Several students at my field learned in SR20s or SR22s. Most of these
Cirrus were owned by their student pilots.

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 05:44:52 GMT, "Jon Woellhaf"
wrote in
ofr7d.291644$mD.256881@attbi_s02::

CO poisoning?


Hypoxia due to altitude exposure?

There's a local pilot that has a disability. His speech is affected by it.
Dave
68 7ECA

Jay Honeck wrote:

On a flight to Galesburg, IL last week, we were utilizing Quad Cities
Approach for VFR flight following. Being a Thursday morning, we
pretty much had the airwaves to ourselves, with the exception of a
Cirrus driver who was coming in to land in the Quad Cities.

The first call we heard from our Cirrus pilot was him asking approach
if he was "headed in the right direction for Rwy 5?" What caught our
attention, aside from the non-standard radio lingo, was the fact that
he was doing a PERFECT Truman-Capote-on-qualudes immitation.

This seemed a bit odd, but the controller cooly assigned a vector to
the pilot -- to which the Cirrus pilot slowly and way too deliberately
responded "Raaaahger, come to a heading of threeee waaaaaahn
zeeeeerrrroo, Ceeeerrrusss November XXXX..."

Mary and I started laughing, thinking that the guy surely must know
the approach controller, or something. It wasn't a southern accent
the guy was using, but rather a Robin-Williams-pretending-to-be-stoned
voice, with that added little Capote-ish lilt that absolutely NO ONE
could be using in a natural way.

With no witty response forthcoming from our severely under-worked
controller, however, we started to suspect that perhaps our Cirrus
driver wasn't playing with a full deck.

Then, at the next call, our hapless pilot, sounding like a cross
between Huckleberry Hound Dog and Foster Brooks, announced waaaay too
slowly and deliberately that he "haadd the aiiirporrrrt in sight, and
woulld like vectors to Runway 5."

By now it seemed pretty clear that (a) the guy didn't know which
direction Rwy 5 faced, and that (b) he was impaired in some fashion.

The fact that he was flying a $300K airplane seemed to eliminate the
possibility that he was just a nervous student flying into controlled
airspace for the first time, but I suppose it's possible.

The last call we heard was ATC switching him over to tower, to which
he again responded in a sleepy, slurred, non-standard way. We just
shrugged, and proceeded on to our destination.

The episode brought a few questions to mind:

1. When does a controller assume that a pilot is impaired? What
mis-steps are required, or what actions must be observed, for ATC to
presume impairment?

2. What would ATC actually *do* about it?

3. If I, or another pilot, witness an obviously impaired pilot, are we
legally (not morally, which I think is easily answered) required to
actually *do* anything about it?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Dale" wrote in message news:me-

snip

I know of at least one case where ATC (Tower) did take action. A Cub on
wheels almost landed in the seaplane base lake. That along with
generally erratic flying prompted the controller to request my
department to see what the problem was once the Cub landed. The problem
is both occupants were drunk, I'm talking .20 or better drunk.


Damn! I'm surprised they managed to get the thing started with all limbs
still attached at that point.

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:56:23 -0400, dave
wrote:

There's a local pilot that has a disability. His speech is affected by it.
Dave
68 7ECA

snipped Jay's message....

I've heard that guy. In fact I hear him almost every Sunday, usually
late in the afternoon. He sounds like he's about 95 years old. More
importantly than that, he sounds like someone that really loves
flying. He may sound impaired but you can "hear" him having fun when
he makes his calls. His radio calls are always accurate and
informative. I hope he can keep flying as long as he wants to. I
certainly hope that he is never grounded because someone doesn't like
the way that he sounds.
Rich Russell