Who has started implementing the TSA rule?

Chris wrote:
Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a
small number
of flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to
get a M1
visa. Without this form and the visa, students will not
get past
immigration.

As fare I know for part time study til
18 hours/week besides holidays no
visa is needed.

"Ralf Gropp" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:
Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a
small number
of flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to
get a M1
visa. Without this form and the visa, students will not
get past
immigration.

As fare I know for part time study til
18 hours/week besides holidays no
visa is needed.

No there is no limit on hours I had to get a visa for 5 hours of training.
He is an except from an email from the US embassy in London.

If you are to receive flight training in the U.S. you will require an F-1,
M-1 or J-1 visa. You should contact the flight school which will provide
you with either an I-20F or M, or a DS-2019 which is required to apply for
the visa.

If you have a private pilots license and you merely wish to build up flight
hours, you will require a B-2 visa. While you may be eligible to travel
visa free under the Visa Waiver Program, if otherwise qualified, since the
introduction of the Applicability of Aviation and Transportation Security
Act, we would recommend that you apply for a B-2 visa.
When applying for the B-2 visa and entry into the U.S. you will be required
to furnish a letter from the flight school stating the type of aircraft you
will be flying.

Detailed information on visa application procedures and advice on how to
schedule an interview at the Embassy is available from our website at
www.usembassy.org.uk

If your flight school cannot issue you with the appropriate form then we
regret that you cannot apply for the necessary visa.

Thank you for your email correspondence.

Consular Information Unit
U.S. Embassy London
CONS/CIU/GMS

"Chris" writes:
Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

What about students who are here in the US to go to college? I am a
F1 student in Pittsburgh, going to grad school full time. Is it no
longer possible for me to learn to fly in my free time? Or do I need
to get special permission from the government?

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
"Chris" writes:

What about students who are here in the US to go to college? I am a
F1 student in Pittsburgh, going to grad school full time. Is it no
longer possible for me to learn to fly in my free time?

Yes, it is possible.

Or do I need
to get special permission from the government?

Yes, you do. Postpone that initial hot-air ballon lesson and start gathering
old passports.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

What's this about M1s?

I am a Canadian Citizen, non-resident Alien down here on TN status. I have
been training since May, and don't need any special visas, etc.
Are you referring to people who want to come to the US strictly to train?
Or non-resident aliens who are already in the country for another reason?


"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly,
you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases,
their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training, type
of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the past 5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by TSA.
Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph.
Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest students? I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

Unlikely to be a problem therefore for the independent freelance
instructor
without M1 approval as having non resident alien students is a breech of
regulations by both the instructor and the student who would get summarily
deported and possibly banned from future entry to the US.

What I would like to see is that the TSA requirements replace the visa
requirements and therefore provide more instructors with legal instruction
opportunities for non resident aliens. The added paperwork is surely worth
having a better business opportunity. After all I know of many potential
students who would like to train anywhere but in the Florida pilot
factories; but can you find an M1 approved school outside Florida and
Lower
California....... very difficult. I for one would love to do some
mountain
flying training up in Oregon but it is impossible legally as a non
resident
alien. (unless someone knows of an M1 approved school) However, I can rent
a
plane in Oregon.

Just some thoughts to see how there could be something good to come of
this.

"Colin Gibb" wrote in message
...
What's this about M1s?

I am a Canadian Citizen, non-resident Alien down here on TN status. I
have
been training since May, and don't need any special visas, etc.
Are you referring to people who want to come to the US strictly to train?
Or non-resident aliens who are already in the country for another reason?

The rule applies to people who come to he US strictly to train, non-resident
aliens who are already in the country for another reason, and resident
aliens who have lived in the country for 50 years. The TSA has explicitly
reaffirmed that definition.

But, since you have been in training since May you are, thanks to the
last-minute clarifications, grandfathered. If you finish one certificate and
start another after Dec 19, you need all the paperwork.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly,
you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases,
their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training, type
of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the past
5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by TSA.
Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph.
Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly, you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest students?
I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after
all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used
to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

Unlikely to be a problem therefore for the independent freelance
instructor
without M1 approval as having non resident alien students is a breech of
regulations by both the instructor and the student who would get
summarily
deported and possibly banned from future entry to the US.

What I would like to see is that the TSA requirements replace the visa
requirements and therefore provide more instructors with legal
instruction
opportunities for non resident aliens. The added paperwork is surely
worth
having a better business opportunity. After all I know of many
potential
students who would like to train anywhere but in the Florida pilot
factories; but can you find an M1 approved school outside Florida and
Lower
California....... very difficult. I for one would love to do some
mountain
flying training up in Oregon but it is impossible legally as a non
resident
alien. (unless someone knows of an M1 approved school) However, I can
rent
a
plane in Oregon.

Just some thoughts to see how there could be something good to come of
this.

Thank god I don't have to go through it all right now..I really wouldn't
have to take a break at this point to get all the paperwork together. I'll
just make sure that once I get my PPL (hopefully early next year), I have
all the neccessary paperwork, and register with TSA before I start training
for my Intstrument Ticket.
That's definately coming right after I get my PPL...



"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
"Colin Gibb" wrote in message
...
What's this about M1s?

I am a Canadian Citizen, non-resident Alien down here on TN status. I
have
been training since May, and don't need any special visas, etc.
Are you referring to people who want to come to the US strictly to
train?
Or non-resident aliens who are already in the country for another
reason?

The rule applies to people who come to he US strictly to train,
non-resident
aliens who are already in the country for another reason, and resident
aliens who have lived in the country for 50 years. The TSA has explicitly
reaffirmed that definition.

But, since you have been in training since May you are, thanks to the
last-minute clarifications, grandfathered. If you finish one certificate
and
start another after Dec 19, you need all the paperwork.

-- David Brooks
Believe!!!!!

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
OK, flight instructors, have you been doing your patriotic duty
since
midday
Wednesday? Remember, under the thoroughly amended rule:

1) If a non-citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to
fly,
you
tell them that they have to submit to TSA: name, including aliases,
their
brand new TSA ID number, a copy of their passport and visa, all the
information needed to get the visa and passport and previous visas
and
passports, their country of birth, all current and past countries of
citizenship, their date of birth, dates and location of training,
type
of
training, fingerprints, address, phone number, addresses for the
past
5
years, gender, a $130 fee, and any other information required by
TSA.
Then
you have to notify TSA about their request and submit a photograph.
Then,
and only then, can you let them in your hot air balloon.

2) If a citizen, with no pilot certificate, wants to learn to fly,
you
have
to determine and continue to determine they are a citizen, and make
a
specifically worded entry in their logbook (which they don't have
yet)
referring to 49 CFR 1552.3(h). Everyone knows the wording, right?

Any CFIs want to recount how they have managed their newest
students?
I
don't expect to hear from anyone who has not done the above - after
all,
you'd be admitting to breaking the law.

Non US students need a visa to train and there is only a small number
of
flight schools around able to issue form I-20 needed to get a M1 visa.
Without this form and the visa, students will not get past
immigration.

Therefore there should not be many CFIs with non resident alien
students
unless they are in a M1 approved flight school. These schools are used
to
handling the necessary paperwork and this only represents a bit more.

Unlikely to be a problem therefore for the independent freelance
instructor
without M1 approval as having non resident alien students is a breech
of
regulations by both the instructor and the student who would get
summarily
deported and possibly banned from future entry to the US.

What I would like to see is that the TSA requirements replace the visa
requirements and therefore provide more instructors with legal
instruction
opportunities for non resident aliens. The added paperwork is surely
worth
having a better business opportunity. After all I know of many
potential
students who would like to train anywhere but in the Florida pilot
factories; but can you find an M1 approved school outside Florida and
Lower
California....... very difficult. I for one would love to do some
mountain
flying training up in Oregon but it is impossible legally as a non
resident
alien. (unless someone knows of an M1 approved school) However, I can
rent
a
plane in Oregon.

Just some thoughts to see how there could be something good to come of
this.

"Colin Gibb" wrote in message
...
What's this about M1s?

I am a Canadian Citizen, non-resident Alien down here on TN status. I
have
been training since May, and don't need any special visas, etc.
Are you referring to people who want to come to the US strictly to train?
Or non-resident aliens who are already in the country for another reason?

As I understand it, if you have entered the US as a non resident alien under
any status then you need to get approval to change that status.

All I can do is suggest you check with the US embassy in Canada. When I
made my enquiry I was planning to visit the US with my family on holiday.
However as I wanted to do 5 days training for my night qualification I had
to get an M1 visa. When we arrived in the US, my family were admitted under
the visa waiver program and I had to go through the finger print and photo
routine whilst an immigration officer asked me whether I was a terrorist.
The flight school I used will not train non resident aliens without a visa
issued alongside an I-20M for issued by them.

They know the rules and can give you miles better advice than here. all I
can do is give you my circumstances, I suggest you check your own.

There is no defence saying that you took your advice from RAP or RAS instead
of the Embassy.

You know what I mean.

my flight school has started implementation....

-lance smith

I have not really been that concerned about it as I am not currently taking
new students, nor will I be taking any more on for the rest of the winter.