First time FBO meltdown

"BTIZ" wrote in message news:n2Ffd.44290$bk1.44010@fed1read05...
another FBO on the field and I may go with them. The only problem is that
they don't rent beyond their students. That and it would cost me

So once they train a student and he has a rating.. if he is not taking
lessons towards additional ratings they won't rent to him?

mmmm.. I thought part of the "training" marketing strategy was to build a
client renter pilot base..

We have an operation like that in Lincoln, CA (Atkin Air). They are
mostly focused on charter operations but they tolerate student flying
as a side business. They will not rent after training though.

-Robert

BTIZ wrote:
So once they train a student and he has a rating.. if he is not taking
lessons towards additional ratings they won't rent to him?

Yep, after talking to one of the CFIs that's how I understand it works.


mmmm.. I thought part of the "training" marketing strategy was to build a
client renter pilot base..

As Robert mentioned (and has the FBO pegged), they're primarily a
charter outfit. They seem to do quite a bit of training but for some
reason they're not tapped into the rental market.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, Wanna-be IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jack Allison wrote in message ...
For just over two years, I've had a great FBO. The operative word here
is "had". Suddenly, they've fallen off the face of the earth. :-(
It's sounding like they've closed shop. A real shame as they used to be
a great FBO and always treated their students and renters extremely well.

For the past month or so, I've been trying to get return phone calls or
e-mail on a variety of inquiries. Uncharacteristically, I received very
little in the way of replies. I could still schedule a plane though. A
month ago, I planned a short x-c flight but couldn't go because the
plane wouldn't start. Looking at the aircraft log, the plane hadn't
flown for two weeks. That was my first clue. It got worse this last
Sunday when I went to the airport and the plane wasn't on the ramp.
Fortunately, one of the A&Ps at the local shop was there and I got some
info. and and have since been in touch with a couple of the CFIs.

Just when I was thinking of starting my instrument lessons. There is
another FBO on the field and I may go with them. The only problem is
that they don't rent beyond their students. That and it would cost me
another $30/hr. over what I used to pay (plane and instructor). There
are other options at a different airport so I still have some things to
consider before making a decision. Wah...I want my own plane...or at
least my own share of a plane. :-)

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, Wanna-be IA Student

Are you by chance flying out of Lincoln, CA?

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Are you by chance flying out of Lincoln, CA?

Well...not any more. Yes, I *was* flying out of LHM :-( That may
change, depending on what I can find in terms of flying clubs, other
FBOs, etc.

Are you a local Robert? I seem to remember you posting about flying
in/out of Minden, NV...then again, maybe I have you confused with
someone else.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, Wanna-be IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jack Allison wrote in message ...
Robert M. Gary wrote:
Are you by chance flying out of Lincoln, CA?

Well...not any more. Yes, I *was* flying out of LHM :-( That may
change, depending on what I can find in terms of flying clubs, other
FBOs, etc.

Are you a local Robert? I seem to remember you posting about flying
in/out of Minden, NV...then again, maybe I have you confused with
someone else.

I have a Mooney in Cameron Park but I teach out of Rancho Murieta
(with Flying Vikings) on the weekends. I occationally teach out of
Cameron Park too. My real job is in Roseville so some of the guys from
work were training at Lincoln before all this happened. I've also
heard good things about the FBO in Auburn if the drive works for you.

-Robert

The DPE for my PPL check ride is based at Cameron Park. Had to fly
there to do the oral then we launched on the x-c portion and diverted
to...guess where? Rancho Murieta.

Auburn would be a pain for me and it's probably a 50/50 split between
driving to LHM or SAC. MHR is closest but there isn't a flight school
there. The good news is that I know a CFI at LHM and SAC. Time to
compare costs/aircraft/FBOs then probably take the plunge and start
instrument lessons at one of them.

So, any of your folks from work affected by the same (not Atkin) FBO?
If so and anyone is looking for an instrument safety pilot, feel free to
pass along my e-mail from the newsgroup. I wonder if I know any of
these folks.

Glad to "meet" a local on the newsgroup.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student/flying club member/co-owner wanna-be,

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jack Allison wrote in message ...
The DPE for my PPL check ride is based at Cameron Park. Had to fly
there to do the oral then we launched on the x-c portion and diverted
to...guess where? Rancho Murieta.


Sounds like Rick Savage. He's a good guy. He keeps his Tramahawk
parked next to my Mooney. He spends most of his time flying a Citation
all over the world for an oil company. He's sent me pictures from
Siberia. Rick is my mentor.


Auburn would be a pain for me and it's probably a 50/50 split between
driving to LHM or SAC. MHR is closest but there isn't a flight school
there. The good news is that I know a CFI at LHM and SAC. Time to
compare costs/aircraft/FBOs then probably take the plunge and start
instrument lessons at one of them.

I used to teach out of Mather with a plane from Flying Vikings.
However, the county found out we were operating a commercial business
from the airport without the minimum number of square feet of office
space (because our office was actually 5 miles south at the Rancho
airport). They kicked us out. There was a training operation at Mather
about a year ago but I think they shut down.
There are several good places at SAC (I recommend CFI (Carter Flygare
Inc) http://www.cfi.com ). However, everything at SAC is 10-20% more
expensive than anywhere else.


So, any of your folks from work affected by the same (not Atkin) FBO?
If so and anyone is looking for an instrument safety pilot, feel free to
pass along my e-mail from the newsgroup. I wonder if I know any of
these folks.

A friend of mine, Alain is in this situation. He's pre-solo though.
He's actually grounded by the TSA now though since he's a French
citizen here on a work visa.

-Robert, CFI

It's ugly, ain't it, Jack?

We are STILL hurting in Iowa City because of what PSAir (the people who
bought Iowa City Flying Service, and then jumped ship in the middle of the
night) did to us a couple of years ago.

One day the FBO was there, the next day the building was empty. Right down
to the maps on the walls.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
It's ugly, ain't it, Jack?

Yep, sure is. Now, LHM has no rental business unless you're a student
at the only other FBO (now the only FBO) on the field. A decent sized
chunk of business completely gone.


One day the FBO was there, the next day the building was empty. Right down
to the maps on the walls.

This incident wasn't quite as dramatic. The office is still there, I
can still get into the lounge/computer/bathroom area. The strange thing
that happened to me is that all of a sudden, phone calls and e-mail were
not being returned.

Who knows though...this whole thing may move me toward a flying club or
perhaps co-ownership, either of which would be fine with me. The good
news is that I'm still in touch with my CFI from my PPL days and have a
small network of folks that I met over the last couple of years.
Something will work out. It's just a matter of time and money.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student/flying club member/co-owner wanna-be,

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Who knows though...this whole thing may move me toward a flying club or
perhaps co-ownership, either of which would be fine with me.

You, perhaps more than any renter pilot I've ever known, are ready for
ownership. Anyone who is jumping the mountains in Spam cans every year to
attend Oshkosh has no business flying rental birds.

I don't care HOW much you trust the FBO maintaining the planes, rental
planes are necessarily seen by management as a disposable commodity with a
limited life span, no different than their vending machines or parts
washers. This stands in stark contrast to an owner's attitude toward their
steeds, and is why I won't hesitate to fly over the Rocky Mountains in
Atlas, but wouldn't dream of doing so in a rental bird.

Get thee a partner, and buy thee an airplane, Jack! Your FBO shutting down
is "the sign" you've been waiting for!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"