Airports to ban cigarette lighters beyond checkpoints

No, actually. He was trying to use a match when he was jumped by other pax.

Dave Reinhart


Andrew Sarangan wrote:

I am not saying I agree with it, I am surprised why butane lighters were
allowed so far. Are nail clippers more dangerous than butane lighters
After all you can't smoke in the airplane anyway. Besides, didn't the
shoe bomber use a lighter?

Martin Hotze wrote in
:


land of the free
land of the brave
land of the save

ridicolous .....


http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...ation/10539621.
h
tm

--- snip ---
Posted on Fri, Dec. 31, 2004

Airports to ban cigarette lighters beyond checkpoints

BY BRYON OKADA
Knight Ridder Newspapers

FORT WORTH, Texas - (KRT) - In what could become a major hassle for
air travelers who smoke, the Homeland Security Department will ban all
cigarette lighters beyond airport checkpoints beginning Feb. 15.

The Intelligence Reform Bill that President Bush signed Dec. 17 orders
the Transportation Security Administration to review its banned-items
list and to prohibit passengers from carrying butane lighters aboard
planes. Legislation stipulates that the ban must be in place in 60
days.

"We are reviewing the necessary changes that the Transportation
Security Administration will need to make based on the new
intelligence legislation," TSA spokeswoman Andrea McCauley said.

The TSA may also expand the banned-items list to include matches,
aviation industry sources have said. No decision has been made,
according to one TSA official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

But if a ban is enacted, it isn't clear how screeners would detect
matches, short of a time-consuming physical search.

In 2003, former TSA head James Loy determined that two lighters and
four books of matches were "an acceptable level of risk" to balance
security and customer service. But over the next year, Loy's decision
was criticized as too lax.

After all, two U.S. senators argued last year, would-be terrorist
Richard Reid was one match strike away from igniting explosives in the
heel of his shoe aboard a Paris-to-Miami flight.
[...]
--- snap ---

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 15:37:15 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

The current TSA focus on airline security is appropriate, but
successful security measures impose more harm (delays, indignities,
exasperation affecting hundreds of thousands of travelers) than the
terror they attempt to control, IMO.

who says that they want to control terror?
keep the people in fear and it will do what ever you want.

in other words: what do you _see_ as an outcome of the bombing in Madrid
(Spain)? [for su this was an awful attack, the people behind the scenes
are not 100% identified, and the government lost elections, etc. etc.] what
do you see as an outcome in Eastern Ireland or England?

#m
--
Oh. God. What have we done.

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...


To be honest, butane lighters should have been banned long ago. They are
explosive and can be very dangerous in the event of cabin depressurization.

Whats the big deal? You can't smoke on the majority (or is it all?) of
US flights anyways?

Dave

In a previous article, said:
Whats the big deal? You can't smoke on the majority (or is it all?) of
US flights anyways?

Because the nicotine addicted losers will freak if they have to wait for
their checked baggage before they can light up.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned
in school. -- A. Einstein

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...


To be honest, butane lighters should have been banned long ago. They are
explosive and can be very dangerous in the event of cabin depressurization.



I've taken a good Bic and threw it into a campfire one, just to see, and the plastic softened and it went pfffffft. no
big deal at all...

I bet one could collect a few books of matches a shoe string and a pill
bottle make their way to a bath room and make some nasty thing that can go
boom out of the mix. They allow the everclear in the water bottle past
security wonder what that and a tee-shirt would do monotof cocktail, perhaps
dump it on the floor to see how fast it can burn? Safety is all just an
illusion!!! you cannot stop anything that's going to happen from happening,
**** HAPPENS!!!! Even if we all were only allowed to board with only our
under garments.





"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

land of the free
land of the brave
land of the save

ridicolous .....


http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/du...n/10539621.htm

--- snip ---
Posted on Fri, Dec. 31, 2004

Airports to ban cigarette lighters beyond checkpoints

BY BRYON OKADA
Knight Ridder Newspapers

FORT WORTH, Texas - (KRT) - In what could become a major hassle for air
travelers who smoke, the Homeland Security Department will ban all
cigarette lighters beyond airport checkpoints beginning Feb. 15.

The Intelligence Reform Bill that President Bush signed Dec. 17 orders the
Transportation Security Administration to review its banned-items list and
to prohibit passengers from carrying butane lighters aboard planes.
Legislation stipulates that the ban must be in place in 60 days.

"We are reviewing the necessary changes that the Transportation Security
Administration will need to make based on the new intelligence
legislation," TSA spokeswoman Andrea McCauley said.

The TSA may also expand the banned-items list to include matches, aviation
industry sources have said. No decision has been made, according to one
TSA
official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

But if a ban is enacted, it isn't clear how screeners would detect
matches,
short of a time-consuming physical search.

In 2003, former TSA head James Loy determined that two lighters and four
books of matches were "an acceptable level of risk" to balance security
and
customer service. But over the next year, Loy's decision was criticized as
too lax.

After all, two U.S. senators argued last year, would-be terrorist Richard
Reid was one match strike away from igniting explosives in the heel of his
shoe aboard a Paris-to-Miami flight.
[...]
--- snap ---


--
Oh. God. What have we done.

Now let me get this right. I may have my physics a bit wrong here so
let me explain my thought process.

Butane lighter. Cabin depressurizes rapidly (explosive decompression?).
Lighter now mechanically pops apart. O2 level is below what it takes
to remain conscious and the temp has suddently dropped below 30F on its
way down to -??F.

So, assuming that the butane lighter was full, can its contents now
catch fire or even explode?

Hmmmm, no, I don't think so.

But, let us assume that depressurization takes place between 10000 -
14000 MSL with a cabin pressurized to 8000 and the OAT is showing -10C

No, I don't think there is a sufficient pressure change to cause the
lighter to mechanically breakup.

I honestly don't see the danger here. What am I missing?
Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

Any one with a little bit of special forces training could make a nasty
weapon with a shoe string. Come to think of it, watch a few movies...
The person(s) it is used on will be rather unhappy while you saw
through their neck....

The next thing they will do is ban all writing utensiles. They make
rather potent weapons -- through the temple, into the throat, under the
5th rib...

I like that idea of everclear. Mixed in a baby food jar with a little
bit of metal sodium kept inside a pill, add just a bit of water....

The point here (hello FBI, TSA, NoSuch Agency - NSA, HSA) is that we
should take a lesson from Israel's airline and their view of security -
disqualify the passengers on the basis of threat potential. This means
searching 20% of the passengers and not driving our airlines into
bankruptcy.

Well, then, come to think of it, my wife is liking me flying us places
more. Seems she didn't like getting all felt up there at the airport...
Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

"steve.t" wrote in message
oups.com...
Now let me get this right. I may have my physics a bit wrong here so
let me explain my thought process.

Butane lighter. Cabin depressurizes rapidly (explosive decompression?).
Lighter now mechanically pops apart. O2 level is below what it takes
to remain conscious and the temp has suddently dropped below 30F on its
way down to -??F.

So, assuming that the butane lighter was full, can its contents now
catch fire or even explode?


You are jumping to conclusions. I said nothing about catching fire. Just
spilling butane on yourself can cause severe burns.

The other misconception is that the reason you cannot remain conscious is
because there is no oxygen. There is plenty of oxygen. It just is not at a
high enough pressure to enter your blood. There is surely enough oxygen to
keep a jet engine lit.