Flying Slow

On 14 Jan 2005 09:31:02 -0800, wrote in
.com::

Take it a step further, while crop dusting, in the turns you are
frequently very deep in the stall region to the point the stall warning
is always going off.

II RC, Part 23 specifies that the stall warning indicator is to become
active 5 knots before the stall.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Have you ever really taken your aircraft to the bottom edges of its
flight ability and airspeed, and flown it with any degree of precision
and of more than just a few moments/minutes?

I had my CFI run through slow flight with me about 2 weeks ago at night.
Made turns with the rudder only at the slowest point, since the ailerons
were way too mushy. Also worked at lifting falling wings with opposite
rudder at stall break.

I agree with you about this being important and that's why I asked my CFI to
work with me on slow flight and stalls.

One thing though, it has been my personal rule to only practice stalls with
an instructor on board. I feel that is reasonable since I am not trained in
spin recovery. I'd be interested in other's opinions on this.

On the subject of "seat of the pants", the first time I flew with my present
instructor, he had me fly patterns without an airspeed indicator. I was
extremely nervous because my primary instructors never did this while I
trained for my private ticket. I found that it was a truly liberating
experience and as a result, I generally fly patterns by feel now.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

In the Aztec I fly, you can actually hear the relay driving the stall light
clicking on and off when you're on the "hairy edge". It's really subtle, but
once you're used to it, in my experience it's as effective as any horn I've
heard, and it doesn't scare the passengers (OK, OK, I've never tested the
last :-)).

You're absoloutly right about keeping your eyes out of the cockpit...
probably something I should stress more when I teach.

-Rob

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
The stall warning light in our Aztec is positioned right behind the yoke
and
all but impossible to see during landing, so we don't really pay much
attention to it or bother to reposition ourselves so it is visible. The
buffet on the tail when approaching a stall is quite pronounced and easily
felt through the yoke and the seat of your pants. We keep our eyes
outside
and concentrate on the power settings and the landing approach,
crosschecking the airspeed occasionally. My experience with airplanes
either without stall warning indicators or airspeed indicators that drop
to
0 in slow flight, thus far, has been limited to a C170B and a SuperCub.
Both of which are very easy to fly by feel. I think they teach you to
keep
your eyes out the windows instead of peeled on the instruments. Another
common airplane that is fun and highly maneuverable in slow flight is a
C182RG. I think the full flap landing configuration stall speed is 37kts,
but it won't indicate that correctly so the airspeed indicator isn't where
you want your eyes.
Jim

"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...


One thing though, it has been my personal rule to only practice stalls
with
an instructor on board. I feel that is reasonable since I am not trained
in
spin recovery. I'd be interested in other's opinions on this.


Trent,

If you don't think you could recover from a spin, I would highly recommend
that you get some spin training, and read up on the spin recovery techniques
for your particular aircraft. A spin can happen any time the airplane gets
away from you (not just doing stalls), and knowing how to react is rather
important. Besides, they're an absoloute blast. :-)

Happy flying.

-Rob

In the Aztec I fly, you can actually hear the relay driving the stall
light
clicking on and off when you're on the "hairy edge".

I always hear it when I do the pre-flight. (From the front of the left wing
you can look in the cockpit and see the light go on when you lift the stall
warning switch) But I've never tried to listen for that clicking during
stalls or on landing. Next time I go up, I'll give it a try.

Jim

You're absoloutly right about keeping your eyes out of the cockpit...
probably something I should stress more when I teach.

I did my tailwheel endorsement in a SuperCub. My instructor was a long time
ag-pilot that grew up with airplanes. Because the nose of the SC slants
downward you have to drop the nose below the horizon to recover, so he
taught me to first recover by dropping the nose below the horizon, then
check the wing with the horizon, then go back to the nose. Eyes always
outside comparing your airplane to the horizon. He taught stall entry the
same way, compare the wing to the horizon, learn the attitude, and feel the
airplane. Once you learn the attitude, you can keep it constant and fly
the SC along in and out of a stall all day long with only subtle control
changes.

Jim

If nothing else, learn what a spin is, how it develops, factors that must be
present for a spin to occur, and of course how to recover. One of the best
sources for material on spins is from Rich Stowell. www.richstowell.com I
haven't seen any posts from Rich in awhile, but his videos and books can
help provide you with a thorough understanding of spins before you go up
with an instructor. Remember, CFI's must undergo "spin training" but it is
severely limited. Find an instructor with extensive spin training. I think
I'm only up to about 20 spins so far.

Jim

"Rob Montgomery" wrote in message
...

If you don't think you could recover from a spin, I would highly recommend
that you get some spin training, and read up on the spin recovery
techniques
for your particular aircraft. A spin can happen any time the airplane gets
away from you (not just doing stalls), and knowing how to react is rather
important. Besides, they're an absoloute blast. :-)

Happy flying.

-Rob

I know, I know. Without going into a lot of detail and lame excuses, I have
had spins demonstrated for me, but have never recovered from them myself.
You're right, they are a blast.

I think the problem so far has been finding instructors who are comfortable
doing spin training.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

I also fly a PA28 (180C). During pre-departure checklist at night my
wife (sitting in the right seat, and not a pilot) reached up to set the
upper door latch as I got to that part of the checklist. I thought she
had latched it for me. OAT was -5C on the ground.

We were cleared to depart IFR and as I got to 800 AGL and switched
freqs, the upper door seals gave way and wind in the plane became so
bad that I couldn't hold a chart unless I had on gloves (which I
didn't). So I made the mistake of opening the side latch in an attempt
to re-shut the door and get both latches to latch.

Neither latch could be operated at that point, and ATC could hardly
hear me over the wind noise -- and I certainly couldn't hear them.
Thankfully it was VMC (because my approach plates were flying around
the cabit) and I could do an immediate 180.

I was at an IAS of 35MPH with the wheels on the runway before I was
able to get the door shut and the latches done.

I think I want to try this slow flight, at altitude, and see if by
slipping I can get that door shut and latched bottom and top. And would
you suggest using full flaps at that point?

Also, I have several speed mods on this plane, so its actual stall
speed is about 10 MPH less than the stall light is set to come on.
Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

steve.t wrote:

I think I want to try this slow flight, at altitude, and see if by
slipping I can get that door shut and latched bottom and top. And
would
you suggest using full flaps at that point?


I've done this several times in a Cherokee 180 and it works just
fine. Just slow down, extend full flaps and bring the airspeed go just
above the stall (pretend you're doing minimum controllable airspeed on
the private pilot PTS). At that speed, you won't even need to slip.
Just push the door into the (now light) slipstream and give it a firm
pull. It should close without a problem. At that speed, low pressure
will not be exerting much pull on the door and you should be able to
secure the top latch easily.

Caveat : If the door pops with a passenger, I highly recommend that
you have the passenger lean back while you close it yourself. I had a
passenger last year that got over-excited about getting the top latch
closed and he twisted it right off (while latching it in the process).
When we got back to the airport, I had to crawl out the baggage
compartment door and let him out using the exterior latch. The fix
cost about $150 with parts and labor.