New Generation Vario's

On Friday, May 23, 2014 2:16:58 PM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
I agree with Tim Taylor comments. I'm a long time user of the CAI 302.



I've heard some complaints that the software in the 302 was never updated..

Well I've never had a 302 Lock up, change settings all by itself, or switch to bluetooth because the lunar pull.

The 302 worked great form the get go and still does, IMHO



I think Richard from Craggy may have been getting false thermal indications because the TE setting in his CAI 302 was off for his particular glider.

The TE is easily adjustable.

BUT to do this and check it in flight you have to get the 302 to switch to CLIMB mode while cruising; this requires a switch installed, as the 302 automatically switches from Climb mode to cruise mode in straight flight.

You connect a simple switch to a couple of pins and you force the 302 to stay in climb mode, do some high speed zooms in calm air and you can see the TE compensation and then easily adjust it in flight.



Mike Borgelt and others have written quite a bit on what your looking for as far a TE compensation in your instruments and how to check them. This stuff is well worth reading if your not sure exactly how TE works and how it should be interfacing with your vario.





The 302 also has a option of pure electronic TE; you do not need a probe.. I used this setting on my Twin Astir and it worked super good.

Nick,

The CAI worked fine in the climb mode. The Cruise mode in my opinion it was showing false thermals.

Richard

The 302 went with the sale of the Mozzie. So it's a greenfield decision.

We fly a lot of blue days here (not too many mountains in Australia) often with variable wind. Instantaneous wind is very useful for turning accurately into wind to track the gravel line to thermal. Over a racing task every second saved counts!

Good feedback, thanks



n Friday, 23 May 2014 12:44:19 UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
The 302 showed false thermals approximately 20% of the time.



Richard (or anyone); I fly with a common total-energy vario. Please tell us what you mean by a "false thermal". Is this just a short duration signal or something else?

Thank you.

On 05/23/2014 5:34 PM, Richard Frawley wrote:
On Friday, 23 May 2014 09:15:40 UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
Richard,



I fly with a V7 and still have a 302 as well. The 302 is 99% as good as the V7. Unless you are racing I actually prefer the 302. It has better tones and of course has the logger as well. Why is the V7 1% better? It does have a better gust filter, so a few times a day it filters out false thermal the 302 does not.



If I was not racing I would buy a 302, it is a great value.

Thanks Tim, thats good feedback.


Hi Richard, I also fly with a V7 and a 302. I think a lot of our
opinions are based on previous experience so bear that in mind when
reading replies . Most of my flying has been with LX instruments and
I prefer the V7 audio tones over the 302. If you're used to and like
the CAI 302 then you may prefer the CnV.

Having flown with the gust filter for the last two seasons it is
"almost" a must have feature. I think it filters out closer to 5% of
false tries rather than 1% but Tim probably has a better feel for the
air than I do so YMMV. The vario works great out of the box but can
also be tweaked extensively to your liking . I can not comment on the
other new varios (Butterfly, CNV) as I have not flown with those.

The V7 has a built in FLARM display. When connected to a FLARM source
it will give you the standard LED circle display fo both FLAMR and
P-CAS* targets (*Powerflarm has a bug to work out with P-CAS data on the
DB9 connector but from what I hear the fix is already available in a
beta FW). Additionally the V7 can be configured to give you spoken
traffic advisories (traffic 12 0'clock high etc..) which makes it more
useful then a beep that makes you focus on the display and then back out
of the cockpit.

Luke Szczepaniak

On Monday, May 26, 2014 7:14:26 AM UTC-7, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
On 05/23/2014 5:34 PM, Richard Frawley wrote:

On Friday, 23 May 2014 09:15:40 UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:

Richard,







I fly with a V7 and still have a 302 as well. The 302 is 99% as good as the V7. Unless you are racing I actually prefer the 302. It has better tones and of course has the logger as well. Why is the V7 1% better? It does have a better gust filter, so a few times a day it filters out false thermal the 302 does not.







If I was not racing I would buy a 302, it is a great value.



Thanks Tim, thats good feedback.





Hi Richard, I also fly with a V7 and a 302. I think a lot of our

opinions are based on previous experience so bear that in mind when

reading replies . Most of my flying has been with LX instruments and

I prefer the V7 audio tones over the 302. If you're used to and like

the CAI 302 then you may prefer the CnV.



Having flown with the gust filter for the last two seasons it is

"almost" a must have feature. I think it filters out closer to 5% of

false tries rather than 1% but Tim probably has a better feel for the

air than I do so YMMV. The vario works great out of the box but can

also be tweaked extensively to your liking . I can not comment on the

other new varios (Butterfly, CNV) as I have not flown with those.



The V7 has a built in FLARM display. When connected to a FLARM source

it will give you the standard LED circle display fo both FLAMR and

P-CAS* targets (*Powerflarm has a bug to work out with P-CAS data on the

DB9 connector but from what I hear the fix is already available in a

beta FW). Additionally the V7 can be configured to give you spoken

traffic advisories (traffic 12 0'clock high etc..) which makes it more

useful then a beep that makes you focus on the display and then back out

of the cockpit.



Luke Szczepaniak

That is a good point about the warning interface on modern various. I had too many buzzers in my glider, when a buzzer sounded you could spend quite a long time figuring out exactly what it meant. Now with my Butterfly Vario, a clear, attractive (!) voice says " LANDING GEAR NOT EXTENDED", or "TRAFFIC, 12 0'CLOCK, HIGH". Its hard to mistake that kind of warning.

I have a 302, a CN vario, and a V9 installed here and there so can compare these. I'm also very fussy about varios, as the CN people will attest.

The 302 is a very very good vario. But it's not in production and it's not as robust as the new ones. It has to be set up right and properly compensated.

Like all these varios it does not like leaks, it does not like flow varios on the same circuit, and it wants the pressures all coming from the same place, not the probe. If you have leaks, flow varios connected together, or you're not using pitot, static, and TE from the probe all these varios will disappoint.

The CN vario is also very very good. The first generation of the filtering software was, in my opinion, a bit better than 302. The second generation (last summer) removed a lot of bugs, but was a step backward in filtering, especially in strong weather and full of water. Now that the navigation stuff is behind them, I gather CN is working again on filtering. Frequent software updates and active development is a plus.

The V9 is a great vario out of the box. The filtering is excellent. It too needs to be set up right and correctly compensated.

It has one big downside for me so far. Where the CN and 302 vario are set up that "2 knots up" means "2 knots up" in both speed command and climb mode, the V9 tones in speed command are set to correspond to horizontal speed differences not vertical ones. It uses somehting like the same tone for "10 knots fast" that it does for "2 knots up." But in a modern glider, the speed to fly is much more sensitive to the lift value. So, bottom line, the tones swing around in speed command mode much more than they do in climb mode. Where this is a problem is when you slow down and sniff around but haven't decided to climb. In speed mode, you'll hear garbage, much too optimistic in lift. So, you have to set it up to switch to climb mode at about 70 knots.

All of these varios have hardware in them that could allow for amazing things, not yet implemented in software.

John Cochrane

How do the V7 / V9 display Netto information? Can you setup a switch?

I am on my second season with a V7. Like John I experience less than 100 percent satisfaction as I slow back into the "sniffing around" speeds. Speed to fly actions and tones are excellent when running flat out. When feeling the need to stop and thermal I find myself using my secondary mechanical vario more than I previously did. As a fix I installed a switch near my trim knob and convenient to my left hand. I switch to climb mode manually when transitioning to "I need a thermal" mode of thinking. Downside is this puts LK 8000 in climb mode also as I have the PNA and V7 synced. This throws off my Task Stats in the LK8000.

All said I do love my V7.

Lane
XF

At 16:49 26 May 2014, wrote:

I have a 302, a CN vario, and a V9 installed here and there so
can compare
=
these. I'm also very fussy about varios, as the CN people will
attest.=20

The 302 is a very very good vario. But it's not in production
and it's not
=
as robust as the new ones. It has to be set up right and
properly
compensat=
ed.=20

Like all these varios it does not like leaks, it does not like
flow varios
=
on the same circuit, and it wants the pressures all coming
from the same
pl=
ace, not the probe. If you have leaks, flow varios connected
together, or
y=
ou're not using pitot, static, and TE from the probe all these
varios will
=
disappoint.=20

The CN vario is also very very good. The first generation of
the filtering
=
software was, in my opinion, a bit better than 302. The
second generation
(=
last summer) removed a lot of bugs, but was a step backward
in filtering,
e=
specially in strong weather and full of water. Now that the
navigation
stuf=
f is behind them, I gather CN is working again on filtering.
Frequent
softw=
are updates and active development is a plus.=20

The V9 is a great vario out of the box. The filtering is
excellent. It too
=
needs to be set up right and correctly compensated.=20

It has one big downside for me so far. Where the CN and 302
vario are set
u=
p that "2 knots up" means "2 knots up" in both speed
command and climb
mode=
, the V9 tones in speed command are set to correspond to
horizontal speed
d=
ifferences not vertical ones. It uses somehting like the same
tone for "10
=
knots fast" that it does for "2 knots up." But in a modern
glider, the
spee=
d to fly is much more sensitive to the lift value. So, bottom
line, the
ton=
es swing around in speed command mode much more than
they do in climb
mode.=
Where this is a problem is when you slow down and sniff
around but
haven't=
decided to climb. In speed mode, you'll hear garbage, much
too optimistic
=
in lift. So, you have to set it up to switch to climb mode at
about 70
knot=
s. =20

All of these varios have hardware in them that could allow for
amazing
thin=
gs, not yet implemented in software.=20

John Cochrane

John,

I don't have a problem with the V9 audio but had to think about
the options as there are 7 climb and 5 cruise audio tone options
to choose between so it should be possible to choose a
combination that gives good information and differentiation
between climb and cruise. I have the V9 needle set for Relative
in cruise mode and so I have selected the "SC Mixed" cruise
audio mode. To quote the manual, "for positive relative values
the sound represents relative; for negative relative values the
sound represents SC". This makes reasonable sense to me
intuitively in flight although I prefer the Borgelt idea of
changing to climb tone when the relative is higher than the MC
setting


John Galloway

My favorite vario is the one that is pointed UP

On Monday, May 26, 2014 4:33:03 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
My favorite vario is the one that is pointed UP

In Arizona, ours all go to 11 knots!

Mike