Help change GAS prices

On 16 May 2004 18:36:56 -0700, (Bob Olds) wrote:

If everyone in the U.S. will NOT buy gasoline on MAY 19 , Then we
will hit the oil companies in the bottom line (Profit). It is
estimated that this would cost them in the millions.
I WON'T buy gas on May 19.

As John said, you just end up purchasing it some other time.
The problem is the refineries are running at capacity trying to meet a
record demand and until we, in general "conserve", the demand will
keep the price up there.

Yes, I drive an SUV but I also get about 30% better gas mileage than I
did 20 years ago and I only drive about 8,000 miles a year copared to
30,000 so I not only save 30% on mileage I save roughly 75% on
driving. That means I use a lot less gas than I did 20 years ago.

Recycling. Any one stop to think if it was saving energy they'd be
paying us for the stuff instead of charging. Recycling Aluminum is
profitable, that's why you see people picking up the cans. They get
paid for them and I'm not refering to states with a deposit.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
Charleston,Arkansas

Roger Halstead wrote in message
The problem is the refineries are running at capacity trying to meet a
record demand and until we, in general "conserve", the demand will
keep the price up there.

"Running at capacity" is just a b_llsh_t excuse for increasing
profits. They fear (rightly so) that people would get ****ed off if
they realized the gas companies largely control the market and set
whatever price they damn well please. If they ask for too much,
people will modify (in the long run) their consumption, if they ask
for too little, they've left money on the table.

With the amount of money that is at stake, do you think that for a
minute that the agrigate gasoline use of 10's of millions of people
would be so hard to predict that they would actually be caught off
guard (as opposed to intentionally having a shortage) by days getting
longer in the summer? Its been summer before, last year as I
remember, and I'm not even an high paid analyst.

If you really want to send a message to those crooks, support a
gasoline tax (in leiu of general obligation bonds and other taxes)
that fully supports the cost of people driving motor vehicles. This
includes road contruction, maintanence, highway patrol, uninsured
motorists going to the hospital, polution, alternative fuel
development, etc.

Its very simple, use more, pay more. Its crazy to subsidize the
consumption of road fuels with other taxes. Also its hard to jack up
prices when the actual costs of driving are being paid at the pump.
It will give people an incentive to conserve. You'll pay more at the
pump but less on April 15th. How well you make out will depend on how
much fuel you use.

"Jay" wrote in message
om...
"Running at capacity" is just a b_llsh_t excuse for increasing
profits.

I don't really know about the refineries, but you don't have to be a genius
to look at the huge monstrosities that clog our roads and figure out that THERE
is at least part of the problem. My Honda Civic takes me everywhere I need to
go in comfort, and probably is burning half the gas of the vehicle in the next
lane. If you really want to show the greedy *******s a thing or two, figure out
how to burn less gas.

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Jay" wrote in message
om...
"Running at capacity" is just a b_llsh_t excuse for increasing
profits.

I don't really know about the refineries, but you don't have to be a
genius
to look at the huge monstrosities that clog our roads and figure out that
THERE
is at least part of the problem. My Honda Civic takes me everywhere I
need to
go in comfort, and probably is burning half the gas of the vehicle in the
next
lane. If you really want to show the greedy *******s a thing or two,
figure out
how to burn less gas.


Lessee........ we're runing out of oil, trees, water, air, food and
waterfront property. Pull your heads out of the sand and quit breeding like
lemmings. Spaceship Earth only holds so many passengers. Devote every spare
dollar towards annexing more real estate. Mars is just a step.

Oh, sorry. Just fantacizing. Rutan is to blame.

Rich S.

Build a refinery!
Find some oil!
Make some $!

How?

Well I'm looking for work (sold business, relocated).
I have board level managerial experience, oil industry experience,
geophysics degree and exploration experience. My ChE uncle built
refineries for ARAMCO for 30 years, is bored with retirement, and
ready to work.

If there is all this obscene profit, as proposed, then it makes sense
to get into the business. Am I right?

Will need serious players to finance...

Are any of you bitchin turkeys serious enough to put up some bucks and
put together a company? Go look at free edgar for some financials on the
competition. If you still think you can play, write.

t

Jay,

Do you have any research showing that fuel taxes are not supporting the
costs of roads? I remember a story on television about the transportation
fund being held in surplus to help balance the budget or something.

I have always toyed with the gas tax idea, it makes a lot of sense in many
ways. The only problem is that it is a drain on the economy in several bad
ways, and I can't get my arms around what the unintended consequences might
be.

One of them would likely be higher taxes to build more public transportation
unless much of the fuel tax is earmarked for that. More public
transportation would mean an increase in corruption in government as the
extra control over where people go and how is just too yummy for those
folks.





"Jay" wrote in message
om...
Roger Halstead wrote in message
The problem is the refineries are running at capacity trying to meet a
record demand and until we, in general "conserve", the demand will
keep the price up there.

"Running at capacity" is just a b_llsh_t excuse for increasing
profits. They fear (rightly so) that people would get ****ed off if
they realized the gas companies largely control the market and set
whatever price they damn well please. If they ask for too much,
people will modify (in the long run) their consumption, if they ask
for too little, they've left money on the table.

With the amount of money that is at stake, do you think that for a
minute that the agrigate gasoline use of 10's of millions of people
would be so hard to predict that they would actually be caught off
guard (as opposed to intentionally having a shortage) by days getting
longer in the summer? Its been summer before, last year as I
remember, and I'm not even an high paid analyst.

If you really want to send a message to those crooks, support a
gasoline tax (in leiu of general obligation bonds and other taxes)
that fully supports the cost of people driving motor vehicles. This
includes road contruction, maintanence, highway patrol, uninsured
motorists going to the hospital, polution, alternative fuel
development, etc.

Its very simple, use more, pay more. Its crazy to subsidize the
consumption of road fuels with other taxes. Also its hard to jack up
prices when the actual costs of driving are being paid at the pump.
It will give people an incentive to conserve. You'll pay more at the
pump but less on April 15th. How well you make out will depend on how
much fuel you use.

Hi "Dude", thank for responding to my post. Read below for more
comments...

"Dude" wrote in message ...
Jay,

Do you have any research showing that fuel taxes are not supporting the
costs of roads? I remember a story on television about the transportation
fund being held in surplus to help balance the budget or something.

Yes I do, if fuel taxes fully supported the cost of construction and
maintenance of roads then I wouldn't have to keep voting "No" on all
the road construction bonds that seem to come up every election. Also
I wouldn't have to keep sending hundereds of dollars (arbitrarily
based on the value of my vehicle) to the DMV every year just to
"register" my car. Building and maintenance is an ongoing process and
always will be, its stupid to borrow money for this use. All the
interest and commision is less infrastructure we could have had, or
equivalently less taxes we would have had to pay out of our pay
checks. Bonds are used to pay for a lot of roads because there is no
political will to pay for them as we go. This is a result of a
previous poster's comment that John Q Public is dumb as a stump.

I have always toyed with the gas tax idea, it makes a lot of sense in many
ways. The only problem is that it is a drain on the economy in several bad
ways, and I can't get my arms around what the unintended consequences might
be.

It does make a lot of sense and is it a worse drain on the economy
than the alternative, higher income tax? There will be consequences
no doubt. Businesses that unfairly benefit (at everyones expense)
from subsidized infrastructure (like trucking) will see a decline in
the demand for their services due to thier higher prices. This will
manifest itself in slighlty higher prices for goods that continue to
move by truck (rather than train).

One of them would likely be higher taxes to build more public transportation
unless much of the fuel tax is earmarked for that. More public
transportation would mean an increase in corruption in government as the
extra control over where people go and how is just too yummy for those
folks.

Its a tough trade between 2 evils, the inefficiency of a well meaning
government or the profit motive and corruption of a monopoly. But
demend for more public transportation would be another outcome. Where
I live, people on the dole are able to afford to drive around in cars.

On 19 May 2004 12:41:41 -0700, (Jay) wrote:

Hi "Dude", thank for responding to my post. Read below for more
comments...

"Dude" wrote in message ...
Jay,

Do you have any research showing that fuel taxes are not supporting the
costs of roads? I remember a story on television about the transportation
fund being held in surplus to help balance the budget or something.

Yes I do, if fuel taxes fully supported the cost of construction and
maintenance of roads then I wouldn't have to keep voting "No" on all
the road construction bonds that seem to come up every election. Also
I wouldn't have to keep sending hundereds of dollars (arbitrarily
based on the value of my vehicle) to the DMV every year just to
"register" my car. Building and maintenance is an ongoing process and
always will be, its stupid to borrow money for this use. All the
interest and commision is less infrastructure we could have had, or
equivalently less taxes we would have had to pay out of our pay
checks. Bonds are used to pay for a lot of roads because there is no
political will to pay for them as we go. This is a result of a
previous poster's comment that John Q Public is dumb as a stump.

Austin is about to get 8 new toll roads. TXDoT says they have no
other alternative. They are holding "public hearings" and getting
plenty of flack (like putting tolls on already paid for roads to pay
for other roads) but are basically saying it's a done deal.


I have always toyed with the gas tax idea, it makes a lot of sense in many
ways. The only problem is that it is a drain on the economy in several bad
ways, and I can't get my arms around what the unintended consequences might
be.

It does make a lot of sense and is it a worse drain on the economy
than the alternative, higher income tax? There will be consequences
no doubt. Businesses that unfairly benefit (at everyones expense)
from subsidized infrastructure (like trucking) will see a decline in
the demand for their services due to thier higher prices. This will
manifest itself in slighlty higher prices for goods that continue to
move by truck (rather than train).

The theory is that heavier vehicles cause more damage to the roads.
And heavier vehicles use more fuel, thus paying their "fair share".
Unfortunately for all of us, they get to pass those costs on to the
consumer and write them off on their taxes. We don't.


One of them would likely be higher taxes to build more public transportation
unless much of the fuel tax is earmarked for that. More public
transportation would mean an increase in corruption in government as the
extra control over where people go and how is just too yummy for those
folks.

In Austin, we pay a 1/2 per cent sales tax to support the mass transit
authority. They have been pushing light rail for several years, in a
city that doesn't easily support a fixed base transit structure. But
"other cities have it", so we must, too. Meanwhile, the buses run
mostly empty with the exception of a few express routes.


Its a tough trade between 2 evils, the inefficiency of a well meaning
government or the profit motive and corruption of a monopoly. But
demend for more public transportation would be another outcome. Where
I live, people on the dole are able to afford to drive around in cars.

Agreed. Gas just hit $1.90 here. This may motivate car pool/van pool
thinking, but most people still prefer the "freedom" of their car.

My wife has a 25 mile one way commute. We had considered moving
north, but the houses are at least 50% higher for the same thing. So
we're looking at a hybrid for her.

--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.

Bob Olds wrote ...
If everyone in the U.S. will NOT buy gasoline on MAY 19 , Then we
will hit the oil companies in the bottom line (Profit). It is
estimated that this would cost them in the millions.
I WON'T buy gas on May 19.


Thank you for redefining the fundamentals of both economics and human
behavior. Your Nobel prize will be mailed to you.

Given the draconian effect that your boycott will have, we can expect
gasoline prices to fall to just pennies per gallon by midday.
Refineries, storage facilities & delivery stations should also fall to
scrap value. My plan (and that of thousands of others) is to buy up
all such surplus fuel & facilities using the change under the sofa
cushions. We'll see you Thursday morning at the pumps.

Daniel

"Bob Olds" wrote in message
m...
If everyone in the U.S. will NOT buy gasoline on MAY 19 , Then we
will hit the oil companies in the bottom line (Profit). It is
estimated that this would cost them in the millions.
I WON'T buy gas on May 19.


And this will cost the oil companies money how? The gas out will not
inconvenience them in the slightest. Now, if everyone just stopped buying
gas, period, that might mean something.