Fuselage lift

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 7:25:36 AM UTC+1, krasw wrote:
Horizontal stab size has nothing to do about fuselage shape (other than tailboom length). It's all about ability to winch launch. If you skip that, you can put very small one to your glider. Concordia uses 27 stabilator and I bet they have no plans for winch launches.

Schempp will install self-launching Solo to bigger Ventus fuselage, there will be no possibilities for tight waist because of that. It will most likely be Ventus2c/Quintus -type fuselage.

I always understood that the Concordia is unable to winch-launch, since it cannot safely execute the pitch-down maneuver after a cable break.
This has to do with the moment the stabilator/elevator can produce.

Just curious, does the ASW-27 and ASG-29 share the same stabilator?


On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 11:25:36 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
Horizontal stab size has nothing to do about fuselage shape (other than tailboom length). It's all about ability to winch launch. If you skip that, you can put very small one to your glider. Concordia uses 27 stabilator and I bet they have no plans for winch launches.

Schempp will install self-launching Solo to bigger Ventus fuselage, there will be no possibilities for tight waist because of that. It will most likely be Ventus2c/Quintus -type fuselage.

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 9:53:31 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Just curious, does the ASW-27 and ASG-29 share the same stabilator?

No, but I am pretty sure they use the same stabilizer and elevator. :-)

Steve Leonard

they actually don't! i had the two side by side two nights ago for some paint work, and they are different sizes and shapes. although it's not uncommon for manufacturers to recycle things like fuselages.

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 11:20:16 AM UTC-4, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 9:53:31 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Just curious, does the ASW-27 and ASG-29 share the same stabilator?

No, but I am pretty sure they use the same stabilizer and elevator. :-)

Steve Leonard

krasw wrote on 3/20/2016 11:25 PM:
Concordia uses 27 stabilator and I bet they have no plans for winch launches.

I thought it used the ASH 26 horizontal. The 27 horizontal is very small
by comparison, too small for the wing area on the Concordia, even
without winch launches.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

On Wednesday, 23 March 2016 04:53:39 UTC+2, Eric Greenwell wrote:
krasw wrote on 3/20/2016 11:25 PM:
Concordia uses 27 stabilator and I bet they have no plans for winch launches.

I thought it used the ASH 26 horizontal. The 27 horizontal is very small
by comparison, too small for the wing area on the Concordia, even
without winch launches.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

I checked, it is 29 stab, which is (at least aerodynamically) identical to 27 stab.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 10:53:39 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
krasw wrote on 3/20/2016 11:25 PM:
Concordia uses 27 stabilator and I bet they have no plans for winch launches.

I thought it used the ASH 26 horizontal. The 27 horizontal is very small
by comparison, too small for the wing area on the Concordia, even
without winch launches.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

Concordia horizontal tail was made in '27 mold, but different construction. Etabiter used '26 horizontal due to larger wing.
UH

On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 8:29:34 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Wondering how much if any lift in gliders is generated from the fuselage in flight. There is a famous photo of a F-15 that landed with one wing gone due to collision. This of course was possible due to the lift generated by the F-15 fuselage.

The Schleicher family of gliders had two new fuselages designed in the mid 1990's (ASW-24 and ASH-26). Scheme-Hirth, fuselages take their linage from the original ventus designed in the late 1970's (wing roots added in later designs, tail feathers modified with ventus 2cx.)

Seems like all new designs of gliders focus on the airfoil, wing shape and winglets, but I wonder how much if any design improvements are not realized due to improvements that could be made in lift and drag of fuselage designs.

Another factor is that the fuselage lift generated by fighter shapes is very different than that generated by a high aspect ratio wing. The fuselage strakes are designed to generate vortices resulting in relatively high lift coefficients at very high angles of attack - and a lot of drag.