Improved live tracking for the SSA membership?

If you want mandatory ADSB for sailplanes you are the enemy of soaring. If you want to figure out how to make soaring a TV sport learn from the masters. This is an X-Alps year. Quit your job, move to Austria. Beg Redbull media until they give you a job(or volunteer) working on the X-Alps. They won't put you in charge, it won't be glamorous, but Redbull has figured out how to do what you want. Observe them while fetching their coffee, return home apply the lessons to sailplanes. Easier than building new ASW-19s. Fame and fortune await.
On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 10:30:20 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Gregg,

I dislike the idea of allowing the SSA to continue with the same stone age thinking that has created such a "thriving sport" for us here in the USA, at all levels. We are part of stagnant organization that suffers from almost no innovation. We are boring. Should we just continue on that path? Keep doing what the SSA good old boys tell us we should and shut up? Fortunately, this is definitely not a 1:9,999 issue...

As I have previously stated, Australia's "SSA" (the GFA) has a different attitude and has proven value for its members with a tracking investment. Europe, on the other hand, (again previously stated) developed a network of Flarm radar (2k per Flarm but I believe Flarm is mandatory in Europe). Would you prefer mandatory Flarm? The FAA wanted to enforce a mandatory ADSB requirement on gliders, something I strongly supported and continue to support. That was 3-4K but far more powerful as a safety solution.

What does the SSA really provide us? If you think the SSA protects us from the "evil FAA" trying to create a modern safety environment, good luck. The SSA should be in the business of marketing the sport of Soaring (not just to 60 year olds who have been part of it for their entire lives) and in the business of innovation. Improved tracking is one obvious opportunity for for later.

But yes, I'll be shocked if anything happens and fully expect it won't.

On Wed, 05 Apr 2017 07:30:19 -0700, Sean Fidler wrote:

Europe, on the other hand, (again previously stated)
developed a network of Flarm radar (2k per Flarm

FLARM Radar is nothing like that price. Its little more than a
RaspberryPi, cheap software radio, antenna, cabinet (if you're feeling
fancy) and some FOSS software. Typical range, even with a low-powered
nonPowerFLARM, can be up to 50 miles depending on how good the antenna is
and where its mounted.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Martin, I was referring to the obvious requirement for each "tracked" US glider to contain a nearly $2000 USD powerFlarm device, not the cost of the Flarm radar antenna. The folks here in the US are often quite sensitive to that cost and feel that Flarm leeching is a suitable means of winning competitions. Yes, really.

http://www.craggyaero.com/powerflarm_core1.

I have a question for you. Is Flarm "required" in Europe or optional? If so, what are the penalties for non-compliance? If not unanimous, what European countries require Flarm, and what countries do not? Thx.

Sean

Sean
Have a look at the OGN wiki, there you will find details of the OGN
tracker,
the basic one can be built for around £20 (30US) and can be tracked in
exactly the same way a FLARM can, (same frequency and compatible position
and identity encoding) they work well and I have 2 in the room with me at
the moment, a single lithium cell runs them self contained for 10-20hours.
They don't provide any collision avoidance but if all you want is tracking
they
are fine, they can also log your flight to an optional SD card and be
fitted with
a barometric module for increased altitude accuracy (and work as a non
compensated vario).
Ben

At 19:33 05 April 2017, Sean Fidler wrote:
Martin, I was referring to the obvious requirement for each "tracked" US
gl=
ider to contain a nearly $2000 USD powerFlarm device, not the cost of the
F=
larm radar antenna. The folks here in the US are often quite sensitive
to
=
that cost and feel that Flarm leeching is a suitable means of winning
compe=
titions. Yes, really.

http://www.craggyaero.com/powerflarm_core1.

I have a question for you. Is Flarm "required" in Europe or optional?
If
=
so, what are the penalties for non-compliance? If not unanimous, what
Euro=
pean countries require Flarm, and what countries do not? Thx.

Sean

On Wed, 05 Apr 2017 12:33:38 -0700, Sean Fidler wrote:

Martin, I was referring to the obvious requirement for each "tracked" US
glider to contain a nearly $2000 USD powerFlarm device, not the cost of
the Flarm radar antenna. The folks here in the US are often quite
sensitive to that cost and feel that Flarm leeching is a suitable means
of winning competitions. Yes, really.

OK, I misunderstood you. To me a FLARM is typically an LX RedBox, which
sells here for £864 (say $1000), so a little over half the price of a
PowerFLARM Core.

I have a question for you. Is Flarm "required" in Europe or optional?

I think that depends on where you a I believe its required in the
Alps, but then there the Rescue helicopters and (probably) most GA
aircraft will also be carrying it.

If so, what are the penalties for non-compliance?

Not getting a launch?

If not unanimous, what European countries require Flarm, and what
countries do not? Thx.

AFAIK its not required anywhere else - at least I haven't seen anything
about it being required equipment anywhere else.

The density of gliders in the air on a good day in some places, and here
I'd include southern UK, is quite high. Since a large majority of them
will be carrying FLARM, it follows that being without it in our fairly
cloudy conditions is not clever. Another clue to the extent of UK takeup
is that all our club gliders, our tugs and our SF-25 TMG are FLARM
equipped.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

At 14:30 05 April 2017, Sean Fidler wrote:
Gregg,

Eu=
rope, on the other hand, (again previously stated) developed a network of
F=
larm radar (2k per Flarm but I believe Flarm is mandatory in Europe).
Woul=
d you prefer mandatory Flarm? The FAA wanted to enforce a mandatory
ADSB
r=
equirement on gliders, something I strongly supported and continue to
suppo=
rt. That was 3-4K but far more powerful as a safety solution.

Thankfully that is only Europe and then only in some parts, probably very
sensible if you fly in the Alps! Luckily in the UK it is not mandatory but
it is
highly recommended, as it uses an open unregulated radio band it can never

be made compulsory or even be approved for ATC use as it is too insecure
and open to spoofing.
Things could have been different if we had been foolish enough to become
part of Europe, but luckily we had more sense!
Ben.

Nb the FLARM radar network is an amateur run and funded project (OGN)
completely separate from FLARM itself.

The SSA involvement in marketing the sport is abysmal. Fleet tracking systems are a mature product where the hardware and monitoring is 150.00 for Battery power unit, 25.00 a month for single user. That was the first place I talked to.

They could also be integrated to display on http://glideport.aero.

If each of the people who actually cared about this did a group buy through the SSA, the cost per unit would drop significantly, and the usage fee would as well.

To click on the SSA website and see an Active moving map of where all the flying is happening in real time would be a huge benefit.

Just my thoughts,

John

Why do you say SSA does not have a live tracking map?

You can click on a map on the SSA homepage and see where all the flying gliders are located worldwide. The only caveat is that the pilot flying the glider must use a tracking device or download the FREE phone app. To think that someone one will not use a free app will suddenly pay $150 plus subscription is crazy talk.

Sean had the opportunity to use 3 second tracking for free at his latest SGP but said he couldn't figure the app out. The other pilots got theirs working.

As a volunteer that has poured my heart and soul into providing a constant push for better tracking and free technical help to our members, it is pretty discouraging to be beat up on this way. I provided tech support for the SGP as did Pedja. Pedja developed our platform free of charge and provides free server time to us

All the member is required to do is download the app to their phone.

Sean advocates a system that uses dedicated boxes in each plane. Such a system excludes club fliers and those which choose not to compete in sanctioned contests. I advocate a system that is available to all glider pilots worldwide 24 hours a day.

Again, being told that SSA doesn't provide Tracking or that our Tracking is crap is pretty discouraging and makes me want to walk away. I don't see why every time Sean has an idea he has to tear down someone else. I can say that in person Sean is a fine gentleman and an asset to the sport. So someone must be stealing his RAS credentials.

Lane

Lane,

Not trying to start a war, I apologize if I've offended you or your teams work. I see the potential for the tracking and I'd love to direct more people to the site to stream the live feeds. Each time I've gone on the SSA web site the tracking doesn't seem to work. I can click on a section of the map that is displaying a number in a upside down tear drop, and it pulls up that person, and nothing else happens. It loads a map that doesn't move, gauges that don't move and just a list of turn points. shrug. That's as recent as a few minutes ago. I have not found the Tracking Cell Phone App and I just checked Google Play. Which is why I looked up vehicle tracking.

I'll allow for me being a moron unable to use modern technology.

If I upload a IGC file to the AERO website, I can replay the file, which is awesome while I learn the sport.

John

You can go directly to "GlidePort.Aero" and become a registered user. This will allow an "info" tab which explains most of the features. To see animation you must click the "play" button in the bottom right of the map screen. You can animate in real time or speed the action up as much as 15x I believe. Of course you'll have to slide the time cursor back to playback at a faster speed as the fast forward doesn't make the actual glider fly 1500 knots!

Myself and Pedja have written how to articles in Soaring but I don't know the months off hand. For the app, iPhone uses Glide Track. Im afraid to state the droid app off the Top of my head but I'm sure you can google Sailplane tracking in the App Store.

I agree we all want effort free Tracking live and in technicolor. I have people call sometimes asking why thier glider isn't showing up. It turns out they fly a 1-26 with a ball vario and no tracking device what so ever.
Come on guys. You have to put a little effort in to get some results! NBC is not going to climb in our gliders and provide live TV coverage of whatever flight you might be interested in at the moment. We have come a long way in four years and have a ways to go. But I can guarantee you that if you want to have Tracking you yourself will have to invest an hour or so learning the system. My parents call me terribly upset that their email icon has disappeared. It's usually a few inches away from the usual spot. Those type of frustrations I can not solve.

Lane