Stemme S12 in Michigan this Saturday, May 20th (KOZW) @ 4 pm

$250k for an Arcus with trailer and electronics and gear? That's not too bad. The Stemme S12 is 369k "loaded" up. A Cobra trailer is another 50k (2-3 hours to rig and derig). Few buy the trailer.

I finally got a chance to fly it today for a short cross country in 2-4 knots of broken, very narrow lift. It flew nicely, needed a little more of an act CG maybe. All operation is simple.The view out the canopy is absolutely extraordinary. Sitting side by side is a game changer. Roll rate was unsurprisingly sluggish but it climbed very, very well even in fairly broken thermals. The motor start is incredibly fast in flight. Literally a few seconds. Landed in a gusty 15-22 mph crosswind. Was not bad at all but requires experience for sure. Taxi is incredibly simple for a tail dragger. Really, really fun overall.

Ya! See my previous post with a link to my flight from Moriarty to
Nephi. 5+ hours between 17-18,000' MSL. 11.3 gallons... Sure beats
driving 12 hours dragging a trailer and I can fold the wings in 4
minutes (after spend about 5 to secure the pads on the back of the
fuselage).

On 5/22/2017 8:22 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
I guess you get what you pay for. 😆

Arcus M is same price but the Stemme sits rigged in T hangar vs requiring a huge hangar to keep the Arcus (or similar) rigged, and needing tow out gear to get to the runway, etc. Depends on the mission I suppose. In my old age I'm getting tired of all the hassle. I just want to go.

Also, Arcus engine overheats and you can't cruise to the good condtions.

Interesting decisions.

--
Dan, 5J

Can the S12 be aerotowed or winched like a proper glider?
Believe the S10 did not have those options.
Jim

"Also, Arcus engine overheats and you can't cruise to the good condtions. "

Really? Mine has never got hot and cruises smoothly at 85 knots. I appreciate the Stemme's cruise ability is far better but you can get to better weather in the Arcus.

Dave's price surprises me. The full kit was 265k euros 5 years ago including German sales tax. Do US buyers have to pay sales tax?

I didn't consider a Stemme. I wanted a glider which flies like my friends' 18m singles.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 4:50:46 AM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
"Also, Arcus engine overheats and you can't cruise to the good condtions. "

Really? Mine has never got hot and cruises smoothly at 85 knots. I appreciate the Stemme's cruise ability is far better but you can get to better weather in the Arcus.

Dave's price surprises me. The full kit was 265k euros 5 years ago including German sales tax. Do US buyers have to pay sales tax?

I didn't consider a Stemme. I wanted a glider which flies like my friends' 18m singles.


Do US buyers have to pay sales tax?
If exported outside of the EU, the German VAT is not charged. However, I think the US has some 'luxury tax' on imported goods above a certain value.

Uli
'AS'

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 4:50:46 AM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
Dave's price surprises me. The full kit was 265k euros 5 years ago
including German sales tax. Do US buyers have to pay sales tax?

$250k does not include sales tax.
No VAT in USA, but some states have sales tax.

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:22:47 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Also, Arcus engine overheats and you can't cruise to the good condtions.

Mine has never overheated, not sure what you're talking about?
ArcusM is certainly not a machine suited for long distance cruise,
but no problem for shorter distances.

Arcus overheating: I understand that one cannot run at full power for more than a few minutes with the ArcusM (or 32?). Sorry if I'm mistaken. Please explain further if I am. I also understood ArcusM's were impractical to cruise long distances under power (again, please correct me if I am mistaken). Also, IMO, the motor operation systems (despite improvements) are still slightly "finicky" (my experience)." As I understand it, the ArcusM and others like it are designed for self launch over an airfield and immediate soaring, not cross country cruising under power. In contrast, the Stemme can cruise easily at 140 knots for almost 1000 miles. One thing I love about the Stemme is that if the good weather is 50 or even 100 miles away, one can fly there under power in minutes. So, cross country cruising practicality (overheating, speed, efficiency, lack of ground handing at far off destination vs the Stemme which can easily taxi and tie out, etc.) is what I'm getting at regarding over-heating. If ArcusM owners are doing this kind of power flying, and over-heating is no concern, I had no idea.

Stemme S12 impressions: The Stemme was unbelievably practical in terms of rigging and hangaring and taxiing (vs ground handling and towing out to runway) and of course general self launch flying charateristics. But the gleaming advantage I see is he Stemme's especially quick, easy and reliable engine start and general operation when soaring and needing the motor to start NOW. After flying in the Stemme yesterday I realized almost immediately that there is simply no comparison in these areas to any other glider with the exception of FES. I flew for an hour into 25 mph headwinds, got low (1200 ft) and within 3 seconds of saying "ok, that's enough" the engine was running and the throttle was being advanced. The only downside I can see is that landouts in fields are not a good option (flipping over forward in soft ground is a risk) and once in said field getting out would be a major undertaking. That and of course the fairly significant price tag. But overall as a self launching motorgliders this thing is incredible.

Again, it is an interesting decision. I also wish to fly at an airport where the Arcus or 32 would be very impractical (likely impossible). I would need to integrate with moderate regional airport power traffic and there is no grass parallel for glider operations.

All I can say is that the world would be a better place with many more Stemme's (or ArcusMs or 32s) available for Cross Country training. 20 minutes from arriving at the airport and taking the keys out of the cars ignition, the Stemme can be at altitude and soaring cross country. That is a unique and almost magical capability.

Nice but I think I'll wait for the S14.