Ohhh goody, PDA software price wars!

Forget the screen and go right to heads up. Superimposed or imaged onto your
sunglasses or whatever. Biggest problem with PDA's is the touch screen
thing - I like big round knobs that have solid clicks I can turn with my big
mitts. I hate poking (and squinting) at the iPaq, not very clever in my
opinion. Better yet with buttons on the stick and flap handle.

Best audio ever is the three-chord tone from an SB-8; Ilec should bring that
back for the -10 - it's like angels from Heaven in a climb.

Jim


"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...

"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...
I can't wait until the day when our entire panel will be a screen all
with
the other instruments, and info just superimposed on the moving map that
will be landstat photos of what we are seeing out the canopy.


Essentially, this could be done now. These 12V computer systems are the
same as the most powerful laptops and come with the same array of I/O
ports
like USB 2.0 and IEEE 1394. They can use hard drives or Flash Memory
virtual drives to make them more rugged. A single 7.5 AH SLA battery
would
power the thing for more than 6 hours.

You would use an "Air Data" sensor that measures pitot/static pressure,air
temp and TE probe pressure. Add a USB GPS engine and you have all you
need.
From this, compute and display IAS, TAS, Altitude, Vario (TE, Average,
Netto
etc.) - use vertical tape displays if you prefer. Of course, the glide
computer with the moving map would be in the center of the display.
Updating the panel would become a matter of just updating the software.

The display could be a thin, daylight readable LCD that hinges down over
the
existing panel containing the old round instruments. If the newfangled
computer goes belly up, just lift the screen up to reveal the old panel.

Bill Daniels

"Jim Phoenix" wrote in message
...
Snip-------

Better yet with buttons on the stick and flap handle.

Snip------

Jim

Cool idea - buttons on stick and flap handle. Limited vocabulary voice
commands would work too.

Bill Daniels



"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...

"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...
I can't wait until the day when our entire panel will be a screen all
with
the other instruments, and info just superimposed on the moving map
that
will be landstat photos of what we are seeing out the canopy.


Essentially, this could be done now. These 12V computer systems are the
same as the most powerful laptops and come with the same array of I/O
ports
like USB 2.0 and IEEE 1394. They can use hard drives or Flash Memory
virtual drives to make them more rugged. A single 7.5 AH SLA battery
would
power the thing for more than 6 hours.

You would use an "Air Data" sensor that measures pitot/static
pressure,air
temp and TE probe pressure. Add a USB GPS engine and you have all you
need.
From this, compute and display IAS, TAS, Altitude, Vario (TE, Average,
Netto
etc.) - use vertical tape displays if you prefer. Of course, the glide
computer with the moving map would be in the center of the display.
Updating the panel would become a matter of just updating the software.

The display could be a thin, daylight readable LCD that hinges down over
the
existing panel containing the old round instruments. If the newfangled
computer goes belly up, just lift the screen up to reveal the old panel.

Bill Daniels

Cool idea - buttons on stick and flap handle. Limited vocabulary voice
commands would work too.

Bill Daniels

And when it heard certain words, it could activate the robot arm to mop your
brow with a cool cloth, whisper calming sounds into your ear, and drop a
valium into your drink, 8-0

Keith

Andy Blackburn wrote:

Free software works, but only to the extent that you
can keep a community of talented volunteers interested
in continuing to innovate and support the product (the
latter being the tougher part since programmers tend
not to like all the administrative BS associate with
product support).

You have a highly flawed assumption above. Those that provide free
software do it for a reason, and their support is as good as of any
commercial organization. Have you ever tried getting real support from
Microsoft? A community of volunteer programmers helps, but success of
a commercial product depends on an analogous existance of motivated
(maybe by money) programmers, so a commercial product can stop its
development as well.


Personally, I don't find a few hundred bucks to be
all that much to pay for what these products do in

You are lucky.

terms of increasing the enjoyment and safety of cross-country
and racing flights - not to mention the potential for
improvement in overall pilot performance. I bought
a copy of WinPilot Pro last year and paid for copy
of SeeYou mobile. Consider it a subsidy for continued
development. They're both quite good pieces of software
and I hope they both prove successful in the market.


I think there is a contradiction here with your previous thoughts.
Since they are commercial products they do not need subsidy. If you
want to subsidise "increasing the enjoyment and safety of
cross-country and racing flights - not to mention the potential for
improvement in overall pilot performance" consider finding some way to
contribute to efforts of those that do that for soaring population at
large. This does not necessarily mean monetary renumeration.

Henryk Birecki

All I can say is, 'Hear, Hear!!' I took a bit of offense
at this as well but just marked it up to misinformation.
The whole notion that if a product doesn't cost that
is MUST not be worth anything is non-sense. However,
it is still VERY prevalent. Oh well, it's not my money
that's being spent. Later!-Markwww.soaringpilot.org At 17:54 21 February 2004, Henryk Birecki wrote:Andy Blackburn wrote:Free software works, but only to the extent that youcan keep a community of talented volunteers interestedin continuing to innovate and support the product (thelatter being the tougher part since programmers tendnot to like all the administrative BS associate withproduct support).You have a highly flawed assumption above. Those that
provide freesoftware do it for a reason, and their support is as
good as of anycommercial organization. Have you ever tried getting
real support fromMicrosoft? A community of volunteer programmers helps,
but success ofa commercial product depends on an analogous existance
of motivated(maybe by money) programmers, so a commercial product
can stop itsdevelopment as well.Personally, I don't find a few hundred bucks to beall that much to pay for what these products do inYou are lucky.terms of increasing the enjoyment and safety of cross-countryand racing flights - not to mention the potential forimprovement in overall pilot performance. I boughta copy of WinPilot Pro last year and paid for copyof SeeYou mobile. Consider it a subsidy for continueddevelopment. They're both quite good pieces of softwareand I hope they both prove successful in the market.I think there is a contradiction here with your previous
thoughts.Since they are commercial products they do not need
subsidy. If youwant to subsidise 'increasing the enjoyment and safety
ofcross-country and racing flights - not to mention the
potential forimprovement in overall pilot performance' consider
finding some way tocontribute to efforts of those that do that for soaring
population atlarge. This does not necessarily mean monetary renumeration.Henryk Birecki

Bill Daniels wrote:
Is anyone working on Linux flight software?



This is a good one -

http://freshmeat.net/projects/gpligc

Very powerful, but you have to really be into Linux to get
it up and running with the support libraries it needs -
OpenGL, Perl/Tk, GnuPlot - but would be a good winter time
project to learn about if you want to get into the nuts and
bolts of GPS 3D flight plotting.

Actually, my (mis)infomation on non-commercial software
comes from extensive research in Open Source community
motivations and behaviors, including survey research
of several thousand Open Source developers. I think
facts normally trump opinions/anecdotes.

I don't think of making money as a bad motivation for
developing software. Writing soaring software is a
particularly tough way to make a living, so I'm willing
to support the guys who have the nerve to do it.

For those of you who develop soaring apps for the personal
satisfaction, good for you. If you don't want my money
at least you have my gratitude.



At 00:54 22 February 2004, Mark Hawkins wrote:
All I can say is, 'Hear, Hear!!' I took a bit of offense
at this as well but just marked it up to misinformation.
The whole notion that if a product doesn't cost that
is MUST not be worth anything is non-sense. However,
it is still VERY prevalent. Oh well, it's not my money
that's being spent. Later!-Markwww.soaringpilot.org
At 17:54 21 February 2004, Henryk Birecki wrote:Andy
Blackburn wrote:Free software works, but only to the
extent that youcan keep a community of talented volunteers
interestedin continuing to innovate and support the
product (thelatter being the tougher part since programmers
tendnot to like all the administrative BS associate
withproduct support).You have a highly flawed assumption
above. Those that
provide freesoftware do it for a reason, and their
support is as
good as of anycommercial organization. Have you ever
tried getting
real support fromMicrosoft? A community of volunteer
programmers helps,
but success ofa commercial product depends on an analogous
existance
of motivated(maybe by money) programmers, so a commercial
product
can stop itsdevelopment as well.Personally, I don't find a few hundred bucks
to beall that much to pay for what these products do
inYou are lucky.terms of increasing the enjoyment and
safety of cross-countryand racing flights - not to
mention the potential forimprovement in overall pilot
performance. I boughta copy of WinPilot Pro last year
and paid for copyof SeeYou mobile. Consider it a subsidy
for continueddevelopment. They're both quite good pieces
of softwareand I hope they both prove successful in
the market.I think there is a contradiction here with
your previous
thoughts.Since they are commercial products they do
not need
subsidy. If youwant to subsidise 'increasing the enjoyment
and safety
ofcross-country and racing flights - not to mention
the
potential forimprovement in overall pilot performance'
consider
finding some way tocontribute to efforts of those that
do that for soaring
population atlarge. This does not necessarily mean
monetary renumeration.Henryk Birecki

tango4 wrote:
Ahhhhh, another Microshaft drone

Free software works, like it or not!

:-)

I hear it's getting cooler down your way Bruce. Only 28 degrees or so. Soon
you'll have nothing but 4 knot ( 2 metre ) midwinter thermals whilst we are
into stonking 6 knot midsummer ones!

Ian



Hi Ian

Fortunately not a major client or fan of Micro$oft Corp.
Most of my systems run open source, and we even publish our extensions back.
Which sort of proves that people can have software for nothing, just without
warranty.

My point was merely that if you are buying something, remember that it has to
make commercial sense, or you may have a Betamax in your glider... It doesn't
matter if the product is good/competitive/desirable. If it was a commercial
venture and does not make commercial sense it will die. Now I DO see the merit
in making an opensource offering. But I doubt there are enough people with the
knowledge and time available to do that. Possibly better to support the Pauls
and Erazems of the world, their products are good, and surely worth paying for.

As for the flying, I spent a three day weekend driving my family to and from my
partner's son's wedding out Kimberly way, and admiring the perfect cloud streets
from the car. Took the opportunity to identify suitable fields for when I start
doing some serious XC out that way...

Ah Well, there is always next weekend. The lack of rain has left us with a very
dry countryside, I think we can count on lots of thermals this winter.

(Written on the Mozilla "Thunderbird" mail client - not getting affected by 98%
of the viruses is sooo nice.)

In my ideal world I'd like to see a single large flat panel screen smack in
the middle of my panel with the various companies vying for who can write
the best program to use for displaying the various things you guys have
brought up. It holds all sorts of possibilites and with multiple windows
open would even mean that you could run programs from different
manufacturers on that same screen.

This nonsense of having to buy a latest and greatest hardware gizmo to go
with the software is crazy. One big screen would be much easier to
read....maybe I'm just getting too old to see the damn little things! Maybe
they could even agree on a single box (hard drive?) to drive the thing as
well bringing it down to just the software competition.

Anyone know if the technology is currently good enough to make this work
i.e. flat screens wrt current drain, ease of use in high sun environments,
etc? I have no expertise in this whatsoever. Just dreamin'.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

Bill Daniels wrote:
Is anyone working on Linux flight software?

I've been looking at some really neat PIII "Car Computers" with 7 inch
screens that run on a very modest amount of 12V DC current - a 7.5 AH
battery should run one 6 hours or more. They cost about the same as a PDA
but have bigger screens, more performance and are infinitely customizable.

Could you point me to a web site or two for these? Sounds interesting.

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA