Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 6:47:02 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
On 08/29/2017 09:09 AM, WB wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 10:05:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen

Please don't ground launch anything by the nose hook. I have a lot of ground launch experience, auto tow and winch, and the very idea of ground launching with the nose hook scares the crap out of me. There have been some horrifying accidents where gliders went into the ground at high speed because the nose hook failed to release.

I do know of one instance of ground launching a Russia. It was an autolaunch situation and there was some slack and subsequent hard jerk on the rope during the initial launch. The Russia over rotated and stalled at low altitude. Busted the glider up. Luckily the pilot did not get severely injured. The glider was repaired and flew again.


So the Russia over-rotated with a nose hook. Wonder what would have
happened with a cg hook? I'll bet an even worse result. This accident
wasn't caused by the nose hook, it was caused by not having the slack
out of the rope prior to launch. And probably lack of a weak link.

I am pretty sure the accident Russia had a CG hook.

On Friday, September 1, 2017 at 6:04:57 PM UTC-5, WB wrote:
On Thursday, August 31, 2017 at 6:47:02 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
On 08/29/2017 09:09 AM, WB wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 10:05:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen

Please don't ground launch anything by the nose hook. I have a lot of ground launch experience, auto tow and winch, and the very idea of ground launching with the nose hook scares the crap out of me. There have been some horrifying accidents where gliders went into the ground at high speed because the nose hook failed to release.

I do know of one instance of ground launching a Russia. It was an autolaunch situation and there was some slack and subsequent hard jerk on the rope during the initial launch. The Russia over rotated and stalled at low altitude. Busted the glider up. Luckily the pilot did not get severely injured. The glider was repaired and flew again.


So the Russia over-rotated with a nose hook. Wonder what would have
happened with a cg hook? I'll bet an even worse result. This accident
wasn't caused by the nose hook, it was caused by not having the slack
out of the rope prior to launch. And probably lack of a weak link.

I am pretty sure the accident Russia had a CG hook.

Or the "chin" hook.

Don't ground launch with a nose hook, super dangerous.

Also, if you can afford a Russia, look for something with more performance for the same price. Like a Libelle or a Std, Cirrus.

Have fun at Hobbs!

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 16:34:55 -0700, collinshea1345 wrote:

Don't ground launch with a nose hook, super dangerous.

Also, if you can afford a Russia, look for something with more
performance for the same price. Like a Libelle or a Std, Cirrus.

.... and, all H.201 Std Libelles have both nose and belly hooks.
So do H.205 Club Libelles, which are cheaper, have bigger cockpits,
better airbrakes and a little less performance.

I can't comment about Std. Cirrii I've never flown one and there are none
at my club. We currently have two Std Libelles and one Club Libelle on
site.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I would hope that no gliding operation that offered ground launches would know enough to refuse to hook up any glider to a nose hook or any other hook without a back-release function and/or not authorised for winching or auto-towing - irrespective of the pilot's opinion on the matter.

Stephen,

I was interested by your query. I looked forward to reading authorative,
first hand experience of ground launching the Russia glider but most of the
replies give general feedback about ground launching gliders using aerotow
nose hooks. I offer comments based upon my limited experience.

The Midland Gliding Club had a Kenilworth Me7 for a few years which was
routinely winch launched. This was the name under which the Russia was
sold in the UK. It only had a compromise hook - with back release. Is
this what is called a chin hook in the USA? (A compromise hook is fitted a
little forward of the position for a CofG hook.)

I do not know what type of hook is fitted to the Russia gliders sold in the
USA. If, unlike the Me7, the Russia AC-4B only has an aerotow nose hook I
cannot offer any advice.

If the Russia has a compromise hook you may wish to contact the MGC CFI via
the web site for authoritative guidance -
http://www.midlandgliding.club/your-committee/.

I had a few flights in the Me7. From memory the flight manual gave a
rather narrow winch launch speed range of 56kts to 60kts. I found gentle
launches at 56kts or a little less to be uneventful with only a slight
tendency to porpoise. The launch height would be typically 200ft less than
was achieved in a Schleicher ASK23 (with CofG hook). With faster launches
I always ended up with porpoising towards the top of the launch which could
become uncomfortable at 60kts. Perhaps with training or more experience I
could have controlled the porpoising better without unduely compromising
the launch height. My weight with parachute was 165lbs and the winch
launching characteristics could be different for heavier or lighter pilots.


The controls were very light, but nicely co-ordinated. There was no
tendency to over-rotate during the initial part of the launch, but I
imagine that a pilot used to the controls of a heavy glider might “over
control� the Me7.

Because of its very light weight, the effect on the Me7 of excessive power
or snatching of the cable would be greater than on heavier gliders. I
would have been wary if the launch crew were inexperienced or not fully
briefed on the launch speed required for the Me7.

I remember reading that a modification was available for the Russia / Me7
to add a CofG hook, but I would expect modified gliders to be rare.

If you particularly want a Russia glider (with a compromise hook), it can
be successfully ground launched. However the name given to the type of
hook gives a clue to its launch charcteristics - it is not optimised for
ground launching or for aerotowing.

At 03:04 25 August 2017, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch
strictly=
by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable
gro=
und launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a
2-=
33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you
climb=
high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling &
uns=
talling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose,
but=
I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can
be
=
done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook
loca=
tion. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on
the
=
nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose
hook=
?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen