ASW 20 SPIN CHARACTERISTICS

I believe the LS-6 does it that way (flaps and ailerons all even in full
negative flap position) my recollection of the 20 is that everything is even at
zero flap and zero stick. One can set it up as one wishes, but one may be
dialing in undesired consequences.
I remember the Boeing engineer who told me, "Aircraft are designed by geniuses
to be operated by idiots".
JJ Sinclair

On the 20, everything is flush in the full negative position.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"JJ Sinclair" a écrit dans le message de
...
I believe the LS-6 does it that way (flaps and ailerons all even in full
negative flap position) my recollection of the 20 is that everything is
even at
zero flap and zero stick. One can set it up as one wishes, but one may be
dialing in undesired consequences.
I remember the Boeing engineer who told me, "Aircraft are designed by
geniuses
to be operated by idiots".
JJ Sinclair

(JJ Sinclair) wrote in message ...
I believe the LS-6 does it that way (flaps and ailerons all even in full
negative flap position)

LS6 has effectively one piece flaperons, so there is never any split
between the flap and the aileron (which is probably why it slows down
so much with landing flap!).

Interestingly, the wing is faired (wingroot and tip) at full negative
(-5) flaps, not at 0. Makes sense, when you think about it.

Since this is a spin thread, the 6 will kinda spin, if forced, but at
my somewhat forward CG only in landing flap.

Kirk
66

JJ,

The 20's flaps and ailerons are split. They move differentially. The
ailerons alot, the flaps a little. They are flush with stick neutral
in fist positve, "0," and negative flap positions. And, of course, in
landing flaps, the ailerons go up causing the distinctive anhedral bow
on approach.

On the ASW 20 I used to own a share in (German, early
model), everything was flush in the neutral (flap 3)
position, I've seen a lot of 20's and I do not recall
seeing any where the flaps lined up with the wing root
in full negative. Oh, and to get back on topic, the
spin characteristics were quite benign with a forward
CofG but it wouldn't climb very well at all.

Andrew Warbrick

LS6C 17.5 (everything is flush in full negative on
this)

At 14:42 06 July 2004, Bert Willing wrote:
On the 20, everything is flush in the full negative
position.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 'TW'


'JJ Sinclair' a écrit dans le message de
...
I believe the LS-6 does it that way (flaps and ailerons
all even in full
negative flap position) my recollection of the 20
is that everything is
even at
zero flap and zero stick. One can set it up as one
wishes, but one may be
dialing in undesired consequences.
I remember the Boeing engineer who told me, 'Aircraft
are designed by
geniuses
to be operated by idiots'.
JJ Sinclair

Flaps & ailerons are flush in full negative, but not the wing fairing. Well,
at least on mine.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Andrew Warbrick" a écrit dans le
message de ...
On the ASW 20 I used to own a share in (German, early
model), everything was flush in the neutral (flap 3)
position, I've seen a lot of 20's and I do not recall
seeing any where the flaps lined up with the wing root
in full negative. Oh, and to get back on topic, the
spin characteristics were quite benign with a forward
CofG but it wouldn't climb very well at all.

Andrew Warbrick

LS6C 17.5 (everything is flush in full negative on
this)

At 14:42 06 July 2004, Bert Willing wrote:
On the 20, everything is flush in the full negative
position.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 'TW'


'JJ Sinclair' a écrit dans le message de
...
I believe the LS-6 does it that way (flaps and ailerons
all even in full
negative flap position) my recollection of the 20
is that everything is
even at
zero flap and zero stick. One can set it up as one
wishes, but one may be
dialing in undesired consequences.
I remember the Boeing engineer who told me, 'Aircraft
are designed by
geniuses
to be operated by idiots'.
JJ Sinclair

Hi Bert,

Lined up with the wing fairings is what I meant by
flush. It's been three years since I had the 20 but
I do remember the flaps lined up with the ailerons
in neutral (and this was adjustable by slackening the
lock nuts and screwing the L'Hotelier's in and out).
I can't accurately recollect whether the flap mixer
moves the flaps more than the ailerons or by the same
amount (though I know the flap mixer mechanism is not
the same in the French 20s and might be different in
the 20b and 20c).

In the LS6 the flaperons are flush with the wing root
in full negative but the 'flaps' are always in line
with the 'ailerons' because they are locked together
and operate in unison.

At 15:36 06 July 2004, Bert Willing wrote:
Flaps & ailerons are flush in full negative, but not
the wing fairing. Well,
at least on mine.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 'TW'


'Andrew Warbrick' a écrit dans le
message de ...
On the ASW 20 I used to own a share in (German, early
model), everything was flush in the neutral (flap
3)
position, I've seen a lot of 20's and I do not recall
seeing any where the flaps lined up with the wing
root
in full negative. Oh, and to get back on topic, the
spin characteristics were quite benign with a forward
CofG but it wouldn't climb very well at all.

Andrew Warbrick

LS6C 17.5 (everything is flush in full negative on
this)

At 14:42 06 July 2004, Bert Willing wrote:
On the 20, everything is flush in the full negative
position.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 'TW'


'JJ Sinclair' a écrit dans le message de
...
I believe the LS-6 does it that way (flaps and ailerons
all even in full
negative flap position) my recollection of the 20
is that everything is
even at
zero flap and zero stick. One can set it up as one
wishes, but one may be
dialing in undesired consequences.
I remember the Boeing engineer who told me, 'Aircraft
are designed by
geniuses
to be operated by idiots'.
JJ Sinclair

Andy Henderson wrote:
"Mylar would just peel off when trying this flap
psoition during your control checks."

Sorry, but I must disagree: my PIK 20B is sealed on the underside of the flaps with Mylar and Teflon, and they go down to 90 degrees! - the Mylar doesn't peel off, it works just fine if you put it on right. And if the grip of the mylar you have fitted to other places on the airframe is that tenuous you should be worried about it peeling.

Rgds,

Derrick Steed

Bryan wrote:
Although George Thelen doesn't name the sailplane that is the subject of his
July 2004 Safety Corner column in Soaring magazine, he seems to be talking
about the ASW 20A. Perhaps someone familiar with that particular accident
could elaborate.

Yes, that was Ruben's fatal ASW-20A accident at Air Sailing.

Jeremy

Owned an A for 17 years. Spun it many times (never inadvertently). If
you abuse the controls at stall, it will spin promptly from positive
flap positions. The more positive, the more dramatic. However, as long
as you use coordinated controls, it handles predictably, though
sometimes sluggishly, with a tendency to spiral dive after stall
break.

The handbook recommends not applying landing flap until on final and
clear of last obstruction. Based on experimenting with recovery from
spins initiated with flaps in landing, this is a very good practice to
maintain.