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#1
November 25th 04, 09:04 PM
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"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:41a63818$1@darkstar... Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote: "Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. How hard have you looked? Ask Chip Gardner how far he was from an airport when he got hit. So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach. I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders in gliders is a solution looking for a problem. A few years ago an AmericaWest airliner 30 miles out of Phoenix nearly hit a glider. A flight attendant had her leg broken during the rapid evasive manuever. 
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#2
November 25th 04, 09:15 PM
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Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider. These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least some info... I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit  -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd I wasn't thinking about the big jets but the person in the PA28 etc. who uses our NDB as a turning point at 2000 ft. The beacon is in the middle of the airfield we use as our gliding club base. The area is marked as an area of intense gliding activity and the airfield is marked with cables. We've had a couple of near thing over the airfield. Peter.
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#3
November 27th 04, 06:41 PM
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On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:15:23 UTC, "Peter Seddon"
wrote: : The area is marked as an area : of intense gliding activity and the airfield is marked with cables. We've : had a couple of near thing over the airfield. I have on several occasions seen light single engined aircraft pass directly over the SGU site at Portmoak on their way - I presumed - to or from Edinburgh airport. They were at 1000', or to put it another way, 300 - 600' below the height the winches cables were getting to. And I have I told you about the Tornado which passed me on the level, in the Cheviots, about 2 wingspans away from me? Ian : --
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#4
November 27th 04, 07:59 PM
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I have on several occasions seen light single engined aircraft pass directly over the SGU site at Portmoak on their way - I presumed - to or from Edinburgh airport. They were at 1000', or to put it another way, 300 - 600' below the height the winches cables were getting to. And I have I told you about the Tornado which passed me on the level, in the Cheviots, about 2 wingspans away from me? Ian : I've had a few good flight at SGU, I must say that I've been too bussy looking out for other gliders buzzing up and down Bishop to see anything in the far distance. It gets hectic up there, and Perth airport is not too far away with quite a lot of GA going on. Peter.
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#5
November 25th 04, 10:49 PM
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you know you are close.. when you can hear the other powerplane go by you..
and you have not seen it.. and when you do find him after he's past.. you realize that the sun angles as he approached you.. he never saw you either.. BT "Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:41a63818$1@darkstar... Peter Seddon peterdotseddonattiscalidotcodotuk wrote: "Gliders in the U.K. were involved in 10 near-midairs The difference between a mid-air and a near-midair is certainly an interesting topic. While in contact with ATC in busy airspace I've frequently had jittery airline FOs call me as threatening traffic over a mile away. I'd guess if you're an airline guy and you see ANY aircraft, and it wasn't on your TCAS, you'd just automatically call it a near-midair. In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. I know of lots and lots of talk about near-midairs, and significant pressure by the airlines to require transponders in more ways. Can we blame them? The FIRST mid-air could result in hundreds of deaths... So there hasn't been one yet, and it's very hard to tell how close we've REALLY been to having a glider-airplane midair that wasn't very near an airport traffic pattern or approach. I'm guessing this is trivial, and requiring transponders in gliders is a solution looking for a problem. Have there been any actual airplane-glider midairs in the UK that weren't takeoff/landing related (within 4 miles of the airport)? in the second half of last year, safety investigators said recently, noting that newer models fly at high altitudes without transponders and are hard to see, both visually and on radar...." http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#188600 e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/3763766.stm Perhaps spam can pilots should look out of the window more often!! Another possibility is a radar reflector installed in the glider. These things are much cheaper than a transponder, and would give at least some info... I'd love to see if my local boating supply shop has one that would fit -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd
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#6
November 26th 04, 09:13 PM
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Mark James Boyd wrote:
In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. About 15 years ago near Ephrata, Washington, there was a glider/airplane collision about 10 miles from the airport. Everyone was killed. I don't remember the details, or even if they were determined with any confidence. I seem to recall one near Truckee 5-10 years ago, but don't remember how far it was from the airport. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA
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#7
November 27th 04, 12:06 AM
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"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message ... Mark James Boyd wrote: In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. About 15 years ago near Ephrata, Washington, there was a glider/airplane collision about 10 miles from the airport. Everyone was killed. I don't remember the details, or even if they were determined with any confidence. I seem to recall one near Truckee 5-10 years ago, but don't remember how far it was from the airport. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA That was the heads down Aero Commander that nearly sliced the Grob in half, except the oxygen bottle deflected the wing tip upwards. The glider pilot was flying without parachute, so his option was to fly gently back to Truckee. IIRC, the bits were jiggling around a bit, but held together long enough. Frank Whiteley
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#8
November 27th 04, 05:33 AM
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Eric Greenwell wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote: In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. About 15 years ago near Ephrata, Washington, there was a glider/airplane collision about 10 miles from the airport. Everyone was killed. I don't remember the details, or even if they were determined with any confidence. Can't find this one in fatals/glider/state of washington on NTSB. Hmmm... Looked for 1980 to 1999... I seem to recall one near Truckee 5-10 years ago, but don't remember how far it was from the airport. 3/31/1998, Grob 102 vs. Aero Commander 690, vicinity of the airport, all uninjured -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd
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#9
November 27th 04, 07:14 AM
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"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:41a81fb1$1@darkstar... Eric Greenwell wrote: Mark James Boyd wrote: In the US, I'm not aware of any ACTUAL midair collisions between a glider and non-glider that are more than 4 miles from an airport. About 15 years ago near Ephrata, Washington, there was a glider/airplane collision about 10 miles from the airport. Everyone was killed. I don't remember the details, or even if they were determined with any confidence. Can't find this one in fatals/glider/state of washington on NTSB. Hmmm... Looked for 1980 to 1999... I seem to recall one near Truckee 5-10 years ago, but don't remember how far it was from the airport. 3/31/1998, Grob 102 vs. Aero Commander 690, vicinity of the airport, all uninjured Yes, but VERY lucky. The empennage was sort of flopping about. The landing was not pretty. Frank
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