Oops

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.

That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily dangerous when punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a gasoline leak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCXz3cJ2dY

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4, ripacheco1967 wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.

That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily dangerous when punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a gasoline leak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCXz3cJ2dY

I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided to meet in Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive, dark, high cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get back without him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no experience on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge had 18 minutes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed more altitude. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange sound as if the prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute. He attempted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees probably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall or spin. Not funny.

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:15:41 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
... Not funny.

I agree. I'm very happy that the pilot was not seriously injured.

Here's a totally serious question.

Was this the first ever 'off-airport' landing for a FES glider?

This doesn’t adds up. Landing on a roof due to sink in the pattern which required starting the motor? Too low for a BRS chute? How can you be too low for a BRS chute. You can deploy them in 1 sec from ground level. Better use a device which was designed to save your life vs relying on sheer luck. More plausible explanation is yet another case of “tunnel vision� where the pilot was focused on only one thing without realizing there are alternatives. Not blaming him without knowing the details, tunnel vision is a vicious thing that can and does happen to the best of us.

Ramy

On 6/6/19 6:32 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:15:41 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
... Not funny.

I agree. I'm very happy that the pilot was not seriously injured.

Here's a totally serious question.

Was this the first ever 'off-airport' landing for a FES glider?


Don't know about FES, but overconfidence in the power source has been a
chronic problem in the motorglider world. May be the first, won't be
the last.

Trying to keep an open mind until all the facts are out, but it sounds
like he got himself down in the weeds over unlandable terrain and
assumed the motor would bail him out. Not how a competent instructor
would teach it.

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 6:15:41 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4, ripacheco1967 wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.

That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily dangerous when punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a gasoline leak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCXz3cJ2dY

I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided to meet in Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive, dark, high cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get back without him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no experience on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge had 18 minutes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed more altitude. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange sound as if the prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute. He attempted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees probably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall or spin. Not funny.

I am new to gliders but I know some about these batteries ... These batteries are tricky... voltage drops suddenly at one point... must know and understand how they perform... how they degrade over time... how temperature affects them...

https://i.stack.imgur.com/LV91V.gif

It's a little advertised feature of the FES: at lower battery levels
you can't get full power from the motor (i.e. sufficient to climb). I
know of another FES owner who has ended in a field due to this.




At 06:34 07 June 2019, ripacheco1967 wrote:
On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 6:15:41 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4,
ripacheco1967 wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5,
son_of_flubber wrote:
The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.
=20
That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily
dangerous when
=
punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a
gasolin=
e leak.
=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DzmCXz3cJ2dY
=20
I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided
to meet
in=
Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive,
dark, high
=
cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get
back
without=
him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no
experienc=
e on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge
had 18
minu=
tes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed
more
altitud=
e. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange
sound as if
t=
he prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute.
He
attemp=
ted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees
prob=
ably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall
or spin.
Not=
funny.

I am new to gliders but I know some about these batteries ...
These
batteri=
es are tricky... voltage drops suddenly at one point... must know
and
under=
stand how they perform... how they degrade over time... how
temperature
aff=
ects them...

https://i.stack.imgur.com/LV91V.gif

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:15:41 PM UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 10:40:09 AM UTC-4, ripacheco1967 wrote:
On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 7:58:22 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
The fireman seemed unaware of the battery fire hazard.

That is scary ... Lithium batteries are extraordinarily dangerous when punctured... If they were properly trained they would treat it as a gasoline leak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmCXz3cJ2dY

I know the pilot. We took off at separate airports but decided to meet in Vermont. We had just completed the flight to VT but a massive, dark, high cloud deck moved in rapidly making it nearly impossible to get back without him using lots of battery. This is a rare situation so he had no experience on the low end of the charge curve. He said the battery gauge had 18 minutes left. In the pattern he hit sink behind a ridge and needed more altitude. Attempted to power up but he said the motor made a strange sound as if the prop brake was ON. By then too low to use the ballistic chute. He attempted to put it into some trees but it fell out into the roof. The trees probably soaked up enough energy to save him from injury. No stall or spin. Not funny.

Crash site is 2.7 miles from runway intersection at Danbury. "In the pattern" doesn't make sense to me.

T8

On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 6:03:32 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:

Crash site is 2.7 miles from runway intersection at Danbury. "In the pattern" doesn't make sense to me.

T8

Agree with the "not funny" comment, but also agree with Evan. 2.7 miles NE of the airport and down to a couple of hundred feet does not sound like "in the pattern". Poked in the east side of the roof and the top part of the chimney is broken off. Plane looks to have been nearly straight down, belly to the southwest when it went into the house. Pictures of the removal.

https://www.newstimes.com/local/arti...photo-17612062

People are not perfect. We make mistakes. I am leaning toward Ramy's comment on tunnel vision. I have had it while flying. In the pattern. It is not fun.

Steve Leonard

At 14:31 07 June 2019, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 6:03:32 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:

Crash site is 2.7 miles from runway intersection at Danbury. "In
the
patt=
ern" doesn't make sense to me. =20
=20
T8

Agree with the "not funny" comment, but also agree with Evan.
2.7 miles
NE=
of the airport and down to a couple of hundred feet does not
sound like
"i=
n the pattern". Poked in the east side of the roof and the top part
of
the=
chimney is broken off. Plane looks to have been nearly straight
down,
bel=
ly to the southwest when it went into the house. Pictures of the
removal.

https://www.newstimes.com/local/arti...family-awaits-
removal-of-pl=
ane-from-their-13938862.php?
fbclid=3DIwAR0Fltiu0ZnuFRXpGXWx2ZT79fbbLs-KULd3=
tRc-d--qsNXoz8pBaFUkbr0#photo-17612062

People are not perfect. We make mistakes. I am leaning toward
Ramy's
comm=
ent on tunnel vision. I have had it while flying. In the pattern. It
is
=
not fun.

Steve Leonard


I'd like to see a GPS flight log if one becomes available. I live in CT
and never heard of this guy. I'm betting that he's a power pilot
conversion type who was trying to fly the pattern like a SEL type
(power-on, dragged in final) in order to try and fit in with their
tower traffic. Those things might take off as a self launcher, but
should be landed as a glider. Some folks just don't get that.

RO