Pawnee Tow Release

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:57:16 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 7:44:32 PM UTC-4, Charles Longley wrote:
In the 3 Pawnee’s I fly 2 use the floor mounted dump lever which I like. The other one uses a shorter lever mounted in front of the throttle which I like even more!

Our Pawnee floor lever lies almost on the floor. There is a tab with a hole which looks like it should have a tension spring to keep the handle more upright. Anyone know if there is supposed to be a tension spring here? Where would the other end attach? Part number?
Thanks in advance,

Bob 7U

I do not recount seeing one with a spring. There should be enough tension on the release cable to keep the handle in the closed or locked position.

Install a Tost reel system and you can use a simpler “release� setup due to the use of a guillotine. Very little force needed to cut the tow rope so the release lever can be smaller and mounted right in front of the throttle. Both our Pawnees have been equipped for several years and I would not like to go back to the Elmira Death Hook!

Plus you get a built in Tost release for when you just have to drag a 200 ft rope behind you...

Kirk
66

On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird, and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider this modification.
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Youngblood

On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird, and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider this modification.
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob

Bob, the system on your Yellow Gorilla should be the standard throughout the towing world. Everyone agrees the handle down, parallel to the floor is difficult to access in an emergency and unsafe. The Schweizer tow hook standardly installed is equally unsafe. While there is no way to make towing completely safe for the tow pilot, at too low an altitude a kiting glider is a death sentence and there is no justifiable reason for any facility to continue with a release system proven to fail when it needs to work the most. Just my humble opinion.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happily flying helicopters.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 8:43:07 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Bob Youngblood;997736 Wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:-
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray
plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird,
and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee
that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow
release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy
to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on
the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In
this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the
pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their
eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make
this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the
application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider
this modification. -
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and
send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking
about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob


Bob, the system on your Yellow Gorilla should be the standard throughout
the towing world. Everyone agrees the handle down, parallel to the
floor is difficult to access in an emergency and unsafe. The Schweizer
tow hook standardly installed is equally unsafe. While there is no way
to make towing completely safe for the tow pilot, at too low an altitude
a kiting glider is a death sentence and there is no justifiable reason
for any facility to continue with a release system proven to fail when
it needs to work the most. Just my humble opinion.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happily flying helicopters.




--
Walt Connelly

Walt, thanks for the kind words. I first made that arrangement on Dusty, my first Pawnee, and then on to the Yellow Gorilla. After many tows and other tow pilots examining the system they all have been in agreement with your observation. I am now completing a new Pawnee which is named Towpecker, it too will have the same release mechanism that even has better performance. Bob

We are looking to purchase a Pawnee PA-25 that had a Continental engine installed (230hp?). It is approved for aerial towing (Schweizer hook) and we are trying to decide if it's worth the time/money to seek an FAA conversion to towing gliders with a TOST. Have read through several of the RAS discussions on this and talked with a couple clubs that completed STC's/FDSO field inspections. I get the feeling it's a real headache, some people concluded they wouldn't do it again. Anyone have a better experience or advice?
Thanks
D

Putting a Tost hook on a Pawnee is a very simple operation. The FAA doesn’t really need to be involved other then representation by an IA. Shoot me an email or call if you have any questions. www.skyeaero.com
Pawnee’s typically come with a 230 HP Lycoming engine. I’ve never seen a Continental on one.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 9:17:31 PM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote:
Putting a Tost hook on a Pawnee is a very simple operation. The FAA doesn’t really need to be involved other then representation by an IA. Shoot me an email or call if you have any questions. www.skyeaero.com
Pawnee’s typically come with a 230 HP Lycoming engine. I’ve never seen a Continental on one.

The Continental was STC'd in this PA-25. I will PM you eventually, but for now let's assume we want to seek a TOST conversion. Will that necessitate an STC or FDSO field approval or can an IA do this? If it requires an STC is there an existing one, or are they unique to each Pawnee model? Should we want to modify the floor release to one of the suggested mods, would that require an STC?
Thanks in advance,
Mike

Originally Posted by Duster[_2_]

We are looking to purchase a Pawnee PA-25 that had a Continental engine installed (230hp?). It is approved for aerial towing (Schweizer hook) and we are trying to decide if it's worth the time/money to seek an FAA conversion to towing gliders with a TOST. Have read through several of the RAS discussions on this and talked with a couple clubs that completed STC's/FDSO field inspections. I get the feeling it's a real headache, some people concluded they wouldn't do it again. Anyone have a better experience or advice?
Thanks
D

"Trying to decide if it's worth the time/money?" Time and money should not enter into the equation when the life of your tow pilot may depend on the TOST release. If you don't care about the life of your tow pilot then by all means keep the Schweizer hook. While you're at it you might give consideration to placing the release handle where the pilot can quickly access it in the upright, seated position. JMHO

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot

Interesting that someone put an O-470 on a Pawnee. Do you know which model it is?

To answer your question the TOST tow release comes with an STC. W&W does a pretty good job supporting them.
Here’s the standard one-
https://wingsandwheels.com/aircraft-...-for-pa25.html
If your club wants to spend a lot more money and go to a retractable one here’s the link-
https://wingsandwheels.com/aircraft-...-for-pa25.html
Pros and cons for each. Depends on how your club operates.

I would put the release in front of the throttle where the pilot can easily see it. One of the Pawnee’s I fly is set up that way. The other two use the stock dump lever. Which is acceptable but not as convenient to reach.

Any IA can sign off the FAA form 337 to document the conversion. The approved data will come from the STC and AC 43.13.

Hope this helps.
Charlie