One step closer to owning an Arrow

("Jay Beckman" (J#1) wrote, referencing back to Jay Honeck's line (J#2)
about what Jack Allison (J#3) would think about J#2 if J#3's new plane (not
a J-3) develops problems inside the next 36 months)
snip
If ANYTHING goes wrong with that plane for the next 36 months, it's going
to be "That jerk Jay!" every time I turn around here...

I'd be mighty obliged if you'd put a last name or initial on that
phrase...please?


You had to bring this up J#1? I'm this close to being excommunicated by
Dudley!!


Montblack

Jay Beckman wrote:
Ahem,

I'd be mighty obliged if you'd put a last name or initial on that
phrase...please?

;O)

The Jay in AZ

Hey, I don't mind having two scapegoats for my future airplane woes.
Besides, spreading the guilt around, you each only shoulder 1/2 the
burden, right? Works for me. Do you have any particular portion of the
plane for which you'd prefer to accept blame? :-)

sound of Jay B in AZ smacking his head and asking "How did I get myself
into this?


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jay Honeck wrote:
Standard. Mostly King. Analog radios, no GPS (yet), Loran (whoppee),
Radar altimiter (sort of cool, wouldn't pay to put one in)


Hey, that radar altimeter is just plain slick. I've never seen one in
anything smaller than a King Air before!

True, I have to agree that this will come in handy for IFR stuff and
setting for DH.

Nah, I figure if Jay has already blessed the plane so I'm good to
go...um...provided there's none of that nasty corrosion stuff in the
wings, especially the spar caps.


Oh, geez. NOW you've done it.

If ANYTHING goes wrong with that plane for the next 36 months, it's going to
be "That jerk Jay!" every time I turn around here...

Well...I *do* need a scapegoat...and 36 months sounds kinda short if you
ask me. I'd much rather have the 10 yr/100K mile type of thing...oh,
right this is an airplane. If it flies, it breaks, if it doesn't fly,
it breaks more.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

You mean "when something goes wrong" correct? I haven't heard any new
owners (present company included) that didn't have squawks in their new
baby... Isn't that right Jay H?

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Mooney 201 4443H

Jay Honeck wrote:
What are the spec numbers you're looking at in the Arrow?
4 + fuel?

Um...have you seen the back seat in a '70 Arrow? Vertically challenged
folks only in the back :-)


Suffice it to say that no one over 5' 9" is going to fit in back -- at least
not with their blood circulation intact.

Unless, of course, someone Mary's size (or smaller) is flying. Then, the
back seats are downright spacious!


Avionics?

Standard. Mostly King. Analog radios, no GPS (yet), Loran (whoppee),
Radar altimiter (sort of cool, wouldn't pay to put one in)


Hey, that radar altimeter is just plain slick. I've never seen one in
anything smaller than a King Air before!


I know. I know. Don't want to jinx the sale. g

Nah, I figure if Jay has already blessed the plane so I'm good to
go...um...provided there's none of that nasty corrosion stuff in the
wings, especially the spar caps.


Oh, geez. NOW you've done it.

If ANYTHING goes wrong with that plane for the next 36 months, it's going to
be "That jerk Jay!" every time I turn around here...

;-)

You mean "when something goes wrong" correct? I haven't heard any new
owners (present company included) that didn't have squawks in their new
baby... Isn't that right Jay H?

Well, we just had a guest this past weekend who was on his way back from
Vero Beach with a brand, new Piper Archer.

Glass cockpit and everything.

HE had no complaints -- yet.

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Why would anyone buy an Arrow. Its just a slower version of a Mooney.
The Mooney has the same engine, more reliable landing gear, and 20
knots faster for comparible models (same year, comparisons). I've had
both and find the Mooney 10 times better. The cabin size is really the
same. Both the Mooney and Arrow started out with short bodies in the
back and got longer about the same time. The cabin width is really the
same (I've measured side to side). Of course the Mooney is also much
sexier.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
: Why would anyone buy an Arrow. Its just a slower version of a Mooney.
: The Mooney has the same engine, more reliable landing gear, and 20
: knots faster for comparible models (same year, comparisons). I've had
: both and find the Mooney 10 times better. The cabin size is really the
: same. Both the Mooney and Arrow started out with short bodies in the
: back and got longer about the same time. The cabin width is really the
: same (I've measured side to side). Of course the Mooney is also much
: sexier.

I might argue Chevy|Ford vs. Toyota. The Piper is more "normal," and thus has
simpler, more available, and I daresay cheaper parts. The Mooney is a better
engineered plane (like a Cessna is), so it performs better and isn't as overbuilt. As
such, it probably breaks a bit more often and is more expensive to fix.

The only major breakdown in this analogy that I can see is Toyota != sexy....


************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

I might argue Chevy|Ford vs. Toyota. The Piper is more "normal," and thus
has
simpler, more available, and I daresay cheaper parts. The Mooney is a
better
engineered plane (like a Cessna is)

Just curious. In your view, how is a Cessna "better engineered" than a
Piper?

I've flown them both, seen the insides of both, and both brands appear to be
almost identical in both performance and design, other than the wing being
in the wrong place on Cessnas. And they have both proven, over time, to be
extremely durable, classic designs.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
: Just curious. In your view, how is a Cessna "better engineered" than a
: Piper?

: I've flown them both, seen the insides of both, and both brands appear to be
: almost identical in both performance and design, other than the wing being
: in the wrong place on Cessnas. And they have both proven, over time, to be
: extremely durable, classic designs.
: --

Basically, Cessna made every model specific to its own target engineering
specs. For example, the 170/172/175/177 are all different in many ways other than
engines. Even within a specific model, things were changed a lot, resulting in lots
of trial/error. Some design tweaks were good, some notsomuch. Ignoring the high/low
wing issue, a 172 with 150hp engine is a lot better on a grass strip than a
PA-28-140/150 since it's a little lighter and has a better airfoil. By the book,
however, I believe a -140 cruises a bit faster, even though it takes more runway to
get off.

If you look at what Piper did, they had a design and pretty much stuck with
it, changing things only as necessary. Consider the stabilator on Arrows vs. older
-140's. Just additional chunks riveted on to make them wider. The -235 uses the same
wing, just with fueltank/wingtip/wing extensions added. Consider:

Pacer/Tri-Pacer/Colt
Apache/Aztruck
PA24-180/250/260/400/twin - all have the same wing spar, for example
PA28-140/150/160/180/235
etc

... just bolt on the changes you need and pump 'em out. It makes for a
less expensive product that may not be an optimal design for any one, but is adequate
for all.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

In article ,
wrote:

[snip]
... just bolt on the changes you need and pump 'em out. It makes for a
less expensive product that may not be an optimal design for any one, but is
adequate
for all.

Or it could have been they found something that worked and didn't try to
break it.

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like