Much Ado About Nothing

RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958 Ka6CR towed it home in 2000.

At 02:37 29 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958 Ka6CR
towed it home
in 2000.

A lot of the 1980's vintage tail skids were retrofitted with the
in-line skate wheels embedded in the skid. They helped, but still
wouldn't track as well as the larger pneumatic tires. My Discus-B
and I believe my first ASW-24 still had skids.

RO

On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:15:05 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 02:37 29 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958 Ka6CR
towed it home
in 2000.

A lot of the 1980's vintage tail skids were retrofitted with the
in-line skate wheels embedded in the skid. They helped, but still
wouldn't track as well as the larger pneumatic tires. My Discus-B
and I believe my first ASW-24 still had skids.

RO

Your ASW-24 didd not have a skid. But they were still a handful even without a load of water, with a quartering tailwind at start of roll. An ASW-24 with CG hook is the only glider I have released on tow on the ground for control issues. I did aerotow my ASH26 a multiple times with the gear mounted CG hook, that was much nicer than the ASW-24 CG hook.

Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 3/29/2020 10:17 AM:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:15:05 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 02:37 29 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958 Ka6CR
towed it home
in 2000.

A lot of the 1980's vintage tail skids were retrofitted with the
in-line skate wheels embedded in the skid. They helped, but still
wouldn't track as well as the larger pneumatic tires. My Discus-B
and I believe my first ASW-24 still had skids.

RO

Your ASW-24 didd not have a skid. But they were still a handful even without a load of water, with a quartering tailwind at start of roll. An ASW-24 with CG hook is the only glider I have released on tow on the ground for control issues. I did aerotow my ASH26 a multiple times with the gear mounted CG hook, that was much nicer than the ASW-24 CG hook.


Did your ASH26 have a steerable tail wheel? That makes a tremendous difference in
controlling where you want it to go. Even without that, the designer's deliberate
positioning of the main gear more forward than usual puts considerable weight on
the tail wheel, increasing it's authority, and making the glider much less likely
to swerve.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 11:06:14 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 3/29/2020 10:17 AM:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:15:05 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 02:37 29 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958 Ka6CR
towed it home
in 2000.

A lot of the 1980's vintage tail skids were retrofitted with the
in-line skate wheels embedded in the skid. They helped, but still
wouldn't track as well as the larger pneumatic tires. My Discus-B
and I believe my first ASW-24 still had skids.

RO

Your ASW-24 didd not have a skid. But they were still a handful even without a load of water, with a quartering tailwind at start of roll. An ASW-24 with CG hook is the only glider I have released on tow on the ground for control issues. I did aerotow my ASH26 a multiple times with the gear mounted CG hook, that was much nicer than the ASW-24 CG hook.


Did your ASH26 have a steerable tail wheel? That makes a tremendous difference in
controlling where you want it to go. Even without that, the designer's deliberate
positioning of the main gear more forward than usual puts considerable weight on
the tail wheel, increasing it's authority, and making the glider much less likely
to swerve.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

No, my ASH26 did not have the steerable installed at time of aero tows. None of the low speed T/O issues my ASW-24's could have with the CG hook.

At 17:17 29 March 2020, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:15:05 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz
wrote:
At 02:37 29 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958
Ka6CR=20
towed it home
in 2000.

A lot of the 1980's vintage tail skids were retrofitted with the
in-line skate wheels embedded in the skid. They helped, but still
wouldn't track as well as the larger pneumatic tires. My Discus-
B=20
and I believe my first ASW-24 still had skids.=20
=20
RO

Your ASW-24 didd not have a skid. But they were still a handful
even
witho=
ut a load of water, with a quartering tailwind at start of roll. An
ASW-2=
4 with CG hook is the only glider I have released on tow on the
ground for
=
control issues. I did aerotow my ASH26 a multiple times with the
gear
moun=
ted CG hook, that was much nicer than the ASW-24 CG hook.


Jon,

My first ASW-24 was serial #10. I checked some old pictures, and
it had a tail skid. I may have gotten a tail wheel on my second
one, But I can't remember right now.

RO

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 4:15:04 PM UTC-4, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 17:17 29 March 2020, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:15:05 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz
wrote:
At 02:37 29 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958
Ka6CR=20
towed it home
in 2000.

A lot of the 1980's vintage tail skids were retrofitted with the
in-line skate wheels embedded in the skid. They helped, but still
wouldn't track as well as the larger pneumatic tires. My Discus-
B=20
and I believe my first ASW-24 still had skids.=20
=20
RO

Your ASW-24 didd not have a skid. But they were still a handful
even
witho=
ut a load of water, with a quartering tailwind at start of roll. An
ASW-2=
4 with CG hook is the only glider I have released on tow on the
ground for
=
control issues. I did aerotow my ASH26 a multiple times with the
gear
moun=
ted CG hook, that was much nicer than the ASW-24 CG hook.


Jon,

My first ASW-24 was serial #10. I checked some old pictures, and
it had a tail skid. I may have gotten a tail wheel on my second
one, But I can't remember right now.

RO

I'll bet your skid was probably a plug in into the tail wheel mount for "low drag".
My '27 came back from a nationals with a skid I asked the guy I loaned it to "what were you thinking?" He said "low drag".
Sigh
UH

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 1:15:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
At 17:17 29 March 2020, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Saturday, March 28, 2020 at 8:15:05 PM UTC-7, Michael Opitz
wrote:
At 02:37 29 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
RO
I think these days tailskids are as rare as hens teeth.
The last one I saw was when the guy who bought my 1958
Ka6CR=20
towed it home
in 2000.

A lot of the 1980's vintage tail skids were retrofitted with the
in-line skate wheels embedded in the skid. They helped, but still
wouldn't track as well as the larger pneumatic tires. My Discus-
B=20
and I believe my first ASW-24 still had skids.=20
=20
RO

Your ASW-24 didd not have a skid. But they were still a handful
even
witho=
ut a load of water, with a quartering tailwind at start of roll. An
ASW-2=
4 with CG hook is the only glider I have released on tow on the
ground for
=
control issues. I did aerotow my ASH26 a multiple times with the
gear
moun=
ted CG hook, that was much nicer than the ASW-24 CG hook.


Jon,

My first ASW-24 was serial #10. I checked some old pictures, and
it had a tail skid. I may have gotten a tail wheel on my second
one, But I can't remember right now.

RO

My mistake, I was under the impression they were never made with a skid. I owned two different ASW-24's also. Nice bird

My old ASW 17 had a tail skid - and to make it worse it had a metal cleat screwed to the bottom of the skid and and the old Schleicher off center CG hook. Needless to say, SOP was to start the roll with the stick full back & a prayer if on tarmac. Once in the air it was fine.

I suspect (but am not sure) that people who report a difference in aero tow handling between belly hooks and nose hooks are really perceiving the difference between forward and aft center of gravity locations on different gliders or the effect of all flying tails. Both of those impact aero tow handling more than location of the hook, in my experience.
ROY

301 Libelles sit high on their gear with the wings at a high angle. Takes relatively longer in the takeoff roll to get the tail up and the ailerons alive. Wing drops are an issue. My 301 is a little worse in that respect. It has Kestrel landing gear so sits about an inch higher than the norm. Towing from the nose hook helps noticeably with getting the tail up and helps prevent wing drop. Once in the air, the diff between flying the nose or belly hook is small.