Glider Purchase Procedure - Annual & Pre Purchase Inspection?

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 2:34:53 PM UTC-7, NMD wrote:
Hello,
I am closing in on my first glider purchase and have narrowed it down to three.

What is a safe purchase procedure for an older glider? Two are LS3's and one is an LS3A. All have been refinished in PU.

Is a new annual sufficient or it is advisable to have a pre-purchase inspection as well?

If an additional purchase inspection I would assume it would be prudent to have a 2nd A&P do it? 2 sets of eyes can’t hurt?
How thorough is a common annual and/or purchase inspection? Is a written report produced, similar to a Boat survey?

In addition to the commonly discussed items including damage history, exterior finish, and trailer condition, what are typical issues, pit falls, and specifics to look out for with an older glider?

New pilot, first ship, and I want to avoid spending more than the purchase price on repairs & maintenance.
Or is this inevitable and a false economy? Should I be 2X / 3X'ing my budget and considering a newer ship?

Thank you in advance for the replies! Jason

Having bought an LS3a almost to the day last year I went through a similar thought process. also a PU finish by JJ who is the supreme master. The ultimate choice is yours - The LS3A is a fine ship and will hold its value. I went through a prebuy and it was worth it.Repairs and maintenance comes with the territory.
The price depends a LOT on how it is equipped and how much you will have to spend to make it FAA and contest legal.
Best of luck on your new ship

Joel, Would you mind sharing more about your pre-buy inspection? How did it go? What have you had to invest in maintenance, or expect to sped in the near future, since your purchase?

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 5:34:53 PM UTC-4, NMD wrote:
Hello,
I am closing in on my first glider purchase and have narrowed it down to three.

What is a safe purchase procedure for an older glider? Two are LS3's and one is an LS3A. All have been refinished in PU.

Is a new annual sufficient or it is advisable to have a pre-purchase inspection as well?

If an additional purchase inspection I would assume it would be prudent to have a 2nd A&P do it? 2 sets of eyes can’t hurt?
How thorough is a common annual and/or purchase inspection? Is a written report produced, similar to a Boat survey?

In addition to the commonly discussed items including damage history, exterior finish, and trailer condition, what are typical issues, pit falls, and specifics to look out for with an older glider?

New pilot, first ship, and I want to avoid spending more than the purchase price on repairs & maintenance.
Or is this inevitable and a false economy? Should I be 2X / 3X'ing my budget and considering a newer ship?

Thank you in advance for the replies! Jason

The first criteria, in my opinion, is whoever you select to assist you in pre purchase evaluation needs to be very experienced in sailplanes. Simply finding another A&P/IA does not assure you of this. It is possible that your best resource may not be an A&P.
In providing a pre purchase evaluation, I look at the following as a minimum:
1) Is there a complete history of the glider? Records are important and commonly not as complete as we would like.
2) Who did the last inspection? I expect this to be very recent. Does this inspector know sailplanes, especially composite sailplanes?
3) Evaluate damage history. This is not a deal breaker. Properly accomplished and documented, the only affect is any resulting weight changes. Note that damage history commonly does reduce future sell price as some people expect to buy only a glider with no significant damage history. This is somewhat unrealistic in older gliders.
4) Make sure AD's, service bulletins, tech notes, and periodic component replacements and weight and balance updates have been accomplished. More than half of the gliders I have done pre purchase inspections on have the following common issues:
a) Tow release out of service life.
b) Seat belt/ shoulder harnesses out of service life.
c) No recent weight and balance. Older than 5 years is a warning.
5) Physical inspection of the glider. This should be done to a written check list. Tap tests where appropriate. Evaluation of surface finish condition.. Look at hinges. Almost none will show signs of recent lubrication of hard to get at control surface hinges. Control play check will identify wear. Look for signs of undocumented minor repairs, especially on control surfaces.. Canopy condition is important. A properly done minor repair is no big deal. A canopy replacement is about a $6-8000 job, depending upon who does it.
6) Understand the storage history. Ships that live outside, not under cover, will have greater aging.
7) Evaluate the trailer. A trailer not well kept is usually a sign of a neglected glider.
8) Expect a written evaluation of findings.
This could go on, but hopefully you get the idea.
Aland Adams wrote an excellent article for Soaring magazine on this topic years ago.
Good luck with whatever ship you buy.
UH

On Wings and Wheels Classified For Sale, right now, there is a Javelin and a Cherokee
that you can practice you pre purchase inspection skills on if needed!
Nick
T

On Friday, April 24, 2020 at 5:34:53 PM UTC-4, NMD wrote:
Hello,
I am closing in on my first glider purchase and have narrowed it down to three.

What is a safe purchase procedure for an older glider? Two are LS3's and one is an LS3A. All have been refinished in PU.

Is a new annual sufficient or it is advisable to have a pre-purchase inspection as well?

If an additional purchase inspection I would assume it would be prudent to have a 2nd A&P do it? 2 sets of eyes can’t hurt?
How thorough is a common annual and/or purchase inspection? Is a written report produced, similar to a Boat survey?

In addition to the commonly discussed items including damage history, exterior finish, and trailer condition, what are typical issues, pit falls, and specifics to look out for with an older glider?

New pilot, first ship, and I want to avoid spending more than the purchase price on repairs & maintenance.
Or is this inevitable and a false economy? Should I be 2X / 3X'ing my budget and considering a newer ship?

Thank you in advance for the replies! Jason

I'm in the same boat so I'm interested in how did it went and whether you have any lessons learned to add.