Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 3:47:41 PM UTC-4, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben

Many moons ago, I had to land out at the 'Wheeling-Ohio Co.' airport in WVa, which at the time was towered - god only knew why! The controller allowed me to try to climb out if I stayed in a particular sector but when that didn't work out, cleared me to land on the not active runway and asked to stop short of the intersection with the active one. After I stopped, he asked me to contact 'Ground' - which turned out to be the same guy - for further assistance. He sent a pickup truck with a rope to get me to the ramp. When I walked into the terminal building, I asked a guy with a mop and a bucket where the restrooms were and that voice sounded awfully familiar .... ;-)
When our club hosted the SSA convention in Greenville, SC, I flew rides in our transponder-equipped G103 out of GMU, right next to the convention center. GMU is located under the class C of GSP and is towered. It was kind of interesting to be sequenced in with the other traffic and cleared to land on the shorter cross-wind runway.
As others mentioned, if you come across like you know what you are doing and if you are not trying to land at LAX, the controllers will work with you.

Uli
'AS'

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 12:47:41 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben

You shouldn't think twice about landing at a tower-controlled A/P, but you should contact them by radio FIRST. That said, there is a procedure to land there in the event of a radio failure. I am not going to discuss the procedure here, so look it up. BTW, I have done it. Bottom line: ATC's job is to support aviation of all sorts, but they EXPECT you to follow the rules and there are consequences for not doing so. Also, I am assuming that you are equipped with the required transponder for entering this airspace. Of course, you can always declare an emergency (by radio) and they WILL accommodate you.

Tom

If you ask to land on a taxiway, volunteer that it's "at my own risk". On an apron, too - that sounds especially dicey unléss you've got it all scoped out prior to the flight.

I've done it with an interested, adaptable controller at a not too busy class D.

Communicate. Try to give the controller a chance to work you in. If he's running patterns on the South side of the runway, I wonder if he'd let you come in close on the North side so you are close when he duck in to land. He's not going to be used to sequencing gliders, so you might get some latitude if you can provide a clear safe plan that works with his flow. He may ask, but he's not going to make you try to violate physics ('say unable') if there's a way.

Once he gives you his runway, don't waste time, get down quick, and behind the hold short line. Once I figured out I had put 2 airplanes waiting, I came in at 100knots, landed at the chosen exit after he changed the exit while I was rolling, got out in 20 seconds and cleared the hold short in another 20. Still probably had the runway for 5 minutes which is a long time.

Be sure to say thank you and carry a short tow rope so you can clear the ramp with help.

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 12:47:41 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben

It depends. Another pilot and I landed a N4D at Twin Falls International. They just asked us to back taxi (push) on the active to the taxiway and contact ground. Ground just had us push to the tie downs.

Most controllers are ignorant of what you are capable of. Consequently, if you can suggest a plan, they will likely usse it. This requires you to know your man/machine capabilities and what is transpiring in the airport environment.

.. Consult ASOS and monitor tower/approach to get the picture. Start listening and communicating early so you maximize your flexibility and to develop the best solution for everyone. If you are even remotely likely to land there, establish comm’s. Knowing the local winds may help you climb away.

As has been stated, when cleared to land, expedite and clear the active ASAP. Landing or taxiing on the grass infields is a poor choice. That level-appearing grass is likely to hide many hazards like ditches and runway markers. Wait at the hold-short for further instructions. Tell Tower/Ground what you need and are capable of. A tow rope is extremely valuable. Ensure that the rope longer than the ship’s wingspan! Don’t leave the ship unattended until secure.

Don’t be a burden and be good guest. Thank everyone repeatedly for their assistance.

Ensure that the rope longer than the ship’s wingspan!

That's a good point, the nice ground guy driving the pickup has likely never towed a glider before. There was a scary moment which a longer rope would have helped.

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 3:47:41 PM UTC-4, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben

Worth noting thing have changed in 2020:

The FAA requires ADS-B Out capability in the continental United States, in the ADS-B rule airspace designated by FAR 91.225:

Class A, B, and C airspace;
Class E airspace at or above 10,000 feet msl, excluding airspace at and below 2,500 feet agl;
Within 30 nautical miles of a Class B primary airport (the Mode C veil);
Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of Class B or Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet;
Class E airspace over the Gulf of Mexico, at and above 3,000 feet msl, within 12 nm of the U.S. coast.

Towing a glider with a rope less than the wingspan (plus some) is asking damage, even with experienced crew. Downhill, sudden stops, too fast. No room for error with a short rope.

Seems like nowadays, the best place to land a glider at a Class B airport would be in the farther reaches of a long-term car parking lot. Would there be enough space between the light poles for a 15M ship?