Folded wing tip question

"Yofuri" wrote in message
a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message
I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door. Rick
Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured in the link?
Could you repeat the link? I missed it. Rick

Sure A good poster over on s.m.n. gave me this link, "
http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg not F-4 but if I read the
photo credit right is Marine. You have to careful with Google refs ---"
Anyone know if this photo is real, and what outcome was?

"a425couple" wrote in
:


"Yofuri" wrote in message
a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message
I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn
downwind and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial
glass cuts to a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when
wreckage shattered the patio door. Rick
Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured in the link?
Could you repeat the link? I missed it. Rick

Sure A good poster over on s.m.n. gave me this link, "
http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg not F-4 but if I read the
photo credit right is Marine. You have to careful with Google refs
---" Anyone know if this photo is real, and what outcome was?

That's not an A-7; it's an F-8. Sez so right in the link. Biggest
differences - F-8 has a variable incidence wing and a pointier nose.

Dave in San Diego

I read the USAF Safety TWX on an incident where a 57th FIS F4E ;aunched
out of Rekyavik with his wings unlocked. When the bird rotated the tips
went vertical and with the sudden shift of the now modified aero center
the bird nosed up steeply. The RIO made the appropriate comment while
the AC rolled the plane inverted to get the nose back down. At the
horizon he rolled right side up and still in burner found that at 300
the tips would lie flat. (Note that USAF F4Es do not have cockpit-
folding controls, - it's all done outside, on the ground, of course.)
They punched the tanks and dumped fuel and determined from a little
test flying that they could make an approach. I forgot the exact speed
but it was doable.
So they came in flat and fast, planted the bird on the runway, slowed
enough to pop the chute and stopped okay. The WingCo had the usual talk
with the crew. He posited that the attaboy canceled the aw **** and the
crew agreed.
(A little careless maybe but not stupid). The mishap occurred because
the bird had just been painted sea grey over the usual slime and
sewage; the wings being unlocked, the telltale red pins also became
grey, and no one noticed they were sticking up when the bird was towed
from the hanagr to teh flightline - or during preflight . . . This
happened sometime around 1972-1973 because I was stationed at Bitburg
AB Germany when I read the TWX report.
Walt BJ ret ftr plt

a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message

a425couple wrote:

"Yofuri" wrote in message

I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door. Rick

Thank you very much. Think that is the one pictured in the link?

Could you repeat the link? I missed it. Rick


Sure A good poster over on s.m.n. gave me this link, "
http://www.vmf235.com/f8_wingsfolded.jpg not F-4 but if I read the
photo credit right is Marine. You have to careful with Google refs ---"
Anyone know if this photo is real, and what outcome was?


That's a Marine F8. The one I knew of was a VA-25 A7E.

Rick

No, cuz the link is a picture of an F-8 Crusader . . . not an A-7
Corsair II. They look similar but the link is a Crusader. Look at the
radome and the profile of the vertical stabilizer and you will know
right away..

Blue skies

John

"John" wrote in message
oups.com...
No, cuz the link is a picture of an F-8 Crusader . . . not an A-7
Corsair II. They look similar but the link is a Crusader. Look at the
radome and the profile of the vertical stabilizer and you will know
right away..

It always irritates me when folks consider an A-7 to be similar to an F-8.
That's like saying a burro is similar to a thoroughbred.

R / John

John Carrier wrote:
"John" wrote in message
oups.com...

No, cuz the link is a picture of an F-8 Crusader . . . not an A-7
Corsair II. They look similar but the link is a Crusader. Look at the
radome and the profile of the vertical stabilizer and you will know
right away..


It always irritates me when folks consider an A-7 to be similar to an F-8.
That's like saying a burro is similar to a thoroughbred.

R / John



Our model club once had a large model display of the USS Enterprise
(CVN-65) depicting the air wing circa 1976.

I had a model of an A-7 - on the cat, deflector up - complete with
flashing lights - awesome little model, even if I do say so myself.....

We took the model display to lots of shows - it always drew a crowd
seeing a 16-foot long carrier complete with air wing on the deck.

We even featured on a UK TV kids show (Blue Peter if you ask).

Anyway, this guy comes up to me at the show, admires the the whole
display - F-14's, A-6's, A-7's, EA-6's S-61's, E-2's, even a 'visiting'
ERA-3, deck crew, tractors - the works, etc - and then tells me I've got
the A-7 wrong !!

I ask what is wrong - and he says I haven't modelled the wings in the
raised position!!

I point out that it is an A-7 - not an F-8 - but he still insists that
the A-7 has the same variable incidence wing as the F-8.

I bit my tongue and muttered 'whatever'............. and walked away.

Bloody punters !!!

Ken

To my knowledge, the A-7 has never successfully completed a wings-folded
flight. Big problem is that the ailerons on the outer (folded) wing panels
so only the spoilers on the upper surface of the wing and rudder would be
available for roll control. The airplane is also not loaded in the T/W
department, so the takeoff roll would be excruciatingly long.

An F-8 did complete a wings-folded hop, out of Sigonella IIRC. The Phantom
should certainly have had the capability and afterburner wouldn't have been
the limiting factor. I know of no documented cases of the F-4 doing so.
Hopefully, a second brain in the cockpit might catch the oversight prior to
T/O.

R / John

"Yofuri" wrote in message
...
a425couple wrote:
I have a old question, maybe someone can refute, or verify?

I tend to mistrust 'sea-stories' w.o. cites. Sometimes I think
they likely true, probably partly true, or unlikely.
But some good ones stick in my mind, from all categories.

Making the rounds circa 1972 was that a F4 with folding wings
(story was MC, possib. Navy) taxied out (story was at Kadena)
got clearance to take off, hit afterburners and got enough thrust
to take off. Sheesh - wingtips were still folded up. Could only
stay in air with afterburner thrust, had to eject, dumped $4 mil.
plane in East China Sea. True or not? Ever true anywhere
or anytime to anyone??

I have seen (recently sited on s.m.n.) what appears to be a
picture of a plane (A-7?) flying with tips folded, so ???



I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS Miramar
in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind and one
panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to a toddler
in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the patio door.

Rick

From the dim recesses of my mind I recall that there was one F-8 that took
off from San Clemente, one evening (night carrier quals about '62?????) with
the winds folded, He managed to turn around and landed safely, and then went
on out to the ship. Don't remember where he changed his flight suit. Can't
recall the name either but I seem to remember that he was well known, at
least later as Sq CO, or maybe CAG.

The F-8 wing folded wing incident in Italy was that Sigonella? or Naples?
Maybe off a carrier in/near Naples Bay? I remember the incident but for some
reason I connect it with Naples.

I have also heard of other folded wing Crusader incidents. I can't recall
the details of them but they included stories of two French F-8N's. I think
that they all flew. As far as wing incidence, left up/down or stuck, that
barely merited a mention.

There have been a lot of strange things in Naval Aviation over the years.
Some almost defy belief, two of my all time favorites are.

In 1956 Tom Attridge, in an F11F-1 became the first man to shoot himself
down. He did survive.

A pilot launched off a carrier near Pt Loma in his F7U, and the bridle got
stuck to the landing gear. He couldn't get the gear all the way up or down,
so they told him to point the nose out over the Pacific and eject onto the
field at NAS North Island. The theory being that the Cutlass would fly out
to sea and crash there. He ejected at about 5000' and landed (safely) but
the Cutlass refused to come down. It circled and circled and circled,
getting lower each time around. It almost hit the Hotel Del Coronado and
then landed on the beach, just across from LFTC (amphib and now SEAL
training base). Of course the gear and underside of the aircraft was
damaged, but the Cutlass was hauled of and was rebuilt to fly again.

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 10:25:37 GMT, "Red Rider"
postulated :

In 1956 Tom Attridge, in an F11F-1 became the first man to shoot himself
down. He did survive.

We were in Gitmo for gunnery when that happened. They gathered us all
together and said that the incident was secret and our mail would be
censored to keep the rest of the world from discovering this. The
second day one of the metalsmiths received a letter at mail call. In
it was a clipping from his wife. The episode was in the Norfolk
newspaper. So much for secrecy.

On that same cruise a mysterious gash appeared in front of the port
intake of an F11F. It was between the two gun ports yet nothing was
inhaled by the engine. BuAer nor Grumman never did figure that one
out.