X-Prize is currently live on Discovery Science Channel

On 4 Oct 2004 11:42:09 -0700, ChuckSlusarczyk
wrote:

In article et, Dave S says...

CNN has it too.. and the word is 368K feet.. they made it.

I've been watching the live broadcast on Science channel and the room was full
of reporters and photographers and no sign of zoom. I figured he'd be right up
there with the rest of the cameras in the first row.

You mean that cute Reporter with the British accent wasn't him in
drag...er... disguise?

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
The speakers never said a
special thanks to zoom or anything about him .Even Richard Branson was about 3
rows back .I thought when one had a special position like jaun said zoomy had ,
that he'd be right up front.I bet he wasn't even there LOL!!!

Chuck (I got the truck title)S RAH-14/1 ret

Roger Halstead wrote...

I say it's a fantastic job well done!

Hear hear!

Dave 'green' Hyde

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:47:13 GMT, Shiver Me Timbers
wrote:

Corky Scott wrote:

This is the only forum Chuck has to defend his honor.

Corky Scott

That may be Corky but tell us why he has to hijack a thread like the
one he did today and try to change it's direction just because of his
personal battle with Zoom and Juan.

I, too, dislike postings whose subject lines don't reflect the content of
the posting. When I respond to them, I generally change the subject line
appropriately.

There are those who don't like to view any of the postings regarding Zoom.
It's common courtesy to put "Zoom" or "zzz" (a RAH convention) in the
Subject line to assist those who use killfiles to avoid these topics. I'd
be obliged if you do so in the future.

You don't want to read postings about Chuck, Juan, and Zoom, but you
apparently like to make them. In the future, please include "Zoom" or
"zzz" in the subject line to assist those who use filters.

A GOOGLE search for this group on the word Zoom shows 6960 returns.

Thats Zoom..... not ZZoom or Zooooom or Zooooomy or any other type of
derivative. Nor is it Juan or Yawn or any derivative of that either.

It may surprise you, but Mr. Campbell is a controversial subject. For that
reason, he generates a lot of discussion.

Many of those 6960 returns are probably RESPONSES to people who post
messages saying "quit talking about Zoom." You don't put a fire out by
dumping more fuel on it.

Corky when is enough on the subject actually enough on the subject.

Corky you mentioned Zoom taking Chuck to task on his ANN website
and how Chuck needs to come here to defend his honour.

WHY HERE.????????

Then, where else? USENET is unique; it is the only uncensorable forum.
Mailing lists and forum pages can be shut down by legal action or threat of
it. Because of the way USENET works, everyone has access and no one can
silence any other individual. And because of Deja...ummm, Google, past
messages are available for reference.

The other advantage of USENET is that modern newsreaders give users great
flexibility to select what they read and what subject they aren't
interested in. If you use "Zoom" and "zzz" as part of a subject line
filter, and add, oh, a half-dozen email addresses to a killfile, you'll see
hardly any messages about Zoom.

USENET is anarchy. It always *has* been anarchy. It's one of its biggest
weeknesses...and its biggest strength. If you put "Zoom", "zzz", and about
a half-dozen names into a killfile, you'll see very few postings on
Campbell. I've been on the groups for twenty years, and I've seen
countless attempts to shut people up by trying to "shame" them. It *never*
works; it always makes the situation worse.

And if they do follow this newsgroup, do you think it's to stay
informed about Chuck's personal ongoing battles with Zoom, or do you
think it's because ( like me ) they have a general interest in
homebuilt aircraft, and enjoy stories about people and from people who
are actually flying, or building their own airplane, and just enjoy the
general conviviality of people like yourself who share their interest
in aviation.

Why are you taking your personal beef with Corky and Chuck public? Why not
email them and express your displeasure? Do you think people read this
newsgroup to watch your battles with Chuck and Corky?

Old Klingon proverb: "If you do not want something said, then do not say
it."

If you want people to talk about aviation...why don't you talk about
aviation?

So, Shiver, what are you building? If you're not building, what are you
thinking of building? If you're not planning on building, what's your
favorite homebuilt? Why? What kind of "mission" do you have and what kind
of planes do you think will meet them? What kind of panel would you
install? What do you feel about the longevity of the various materials?
How do the homebuilding rules in your country differ from those in the US?

Ron Wanttaja

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:47:13 GMT, Shiver Me Timbers
wrote:

Corky you mentioned Zoom taking Chuck to task on his ANN website
and how Chuck needs to come here to defend his honour.

WHY HERE.????????

Do you think that everyone in this group also follows ANN's website,
and do you think that everyone who reads ANN's website follows this
newsgroup.

"Shiver": I've snipped most of your comments because I simply am not
interested in addressing them point by point as others will no doubt
do, but I have to say that based upon your comments today you have
very little understanding of the nature of Chuck's problems with Zoom.
In saying that Zoom has been "taking Chuck to task" you indicate that
in your opinion that Zoom's accusations have a degree of merit which
even a casual investigation of the facts will show to be lacking.

Zoom has made a habit of defaming Chuck in his various publications
through the use of innuendo, half truths, and outright fabrication for
several years now. His reasons for doing so have been discussed here
many times in the past and aren't really relevant to this discussion.
The simple answer to your question of "WHY HERE?" is that this is the
best (and originally, the only) forum available for Chuck to respond.

Chuck can't respond on the ANN site because Zoom controls the content
of that site and any discussion forums associated with it, and will
delete any comments which he doesn't like or which may undermine his
position. If Chuck wants to get his side of the story out, he has no
choice but to post it in other aviation forums. Posting to the thread
in question in particular is more than appropriate because Zoom/Juan
have claimed to have some sort of exlusive media arrangement related
to the SS1 flights.

Others will probably post the opinion that you are simply the latest
in a series of Zoom sock puppets to post here, but since you are
relatively new to this newsgroup and have made posts on other topics I
am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. Before posting on this
topic again I would suggest you do some research by visiting the Zoom
FAQ site and learning more about the history of this dispute:

http://www.ousterhout.net/zoom.html

Finally, you should understand that this is an unmoderated newsgroup
and the regular posters here like it that way for the most part. In
the past, efforts at enforcing content restrictions have met with a
lot of disapproval. If you do not approve of the way things are done
here, you are of course free to go elsewhere.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

Del Rawlins wrote:

Zoom has made a habit of defaming Chuck in his various publications
through the use of innuendo, half truths, and outright fabrication for
several years now.

I am not arguing that point at all. The fact is that everyone in this
group including general lurkers like me are very well aware of the
facts surrounding Chuck Zoom and Juan.

My point is simple. Considering the historical importance of what took
place today and the fact that the thread in question was to allow the
regulars here to congratulate and give accolades to Burt Rutan and his
team, why would Chuck decide that he just had to somehow interject
the Zoom and Juan factor into the equation instead of just coming in
like everyone else, congratulating Burt as he richly deserved, and just
shutting the **** up about his personal and ongoing problems with Zoom.

It's not as if he couldn't start another Zoom thread or just add his
comments to an existing thread, there are six current ongoing
threads on Zoom and Juan right now.

This isn't Chuck's day, nor Zooms nor Juans..... It's Burt Rutans day
and those directly involved in the fantastic accomplishment that took
place today in outer space. There's that old saying of knowing when to
hold them and when to fold them, and in my humble opinion today Chuck
showed no more intelligence or comman sense than Zoom does in deciding
when and where to blow his nose.

And since I like to think that I know when to hold them and when
to fold them, this is me saying that I have made my point and if
someone wants to spit at me for pointing out the obvious then
folks help yourselves.

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

So, Shiver, what are you building? If you're not building, what are you
thinking of building? If you're not planning on building, what's your
favorite homebuilt? Why? What kind of "mission" do you have and what kind
of planes do you think will meet them? What kind of panel would you
install? What do you feel about the longevity of the various materials?
How do the homebuilding rules in your country differ from those in the US?

Ron Wanttaja

Well Ron my days of building are pretty much over.

Like many armchair pilots and lurkers I enjoy the general discussion
aviation in general, particularily homebuilding.

Now if I was in a position to actually build a plane, considering I
live in Canada with lots of lakes and rivers I would look at some sort
of amphibian as my first choice... like a Coot perhaps, or else
something like a Bearhawk on floats or amphibs.

Now my curious question back... and perhaps Del could take a shot at
this considering where he lives and the fog and weather that he would
encounter in some of the coastal and inland regions.

How about a FLIR installed. Pointing forwards obviously.

Cost aside.... What sort of benefit could a pilot get from being able
to see what's ahead of them by having a FLIR display in the cockpit.

The more I watch these cop shows with the eye in the sky clearly
showing the bad guy, cars, streets, buildings, etc., the more I wonder
if and when something like that is going to be available in the cockpit
of both commercial and general aviation planes.

Del (or anyone) what if you had to fly between to large hills, down a
fiord, low in foggy weather with a radio tower nearby, blah blah blah.

Could a FLIR system show a radio tower with guy wires ahead of you on a
dark and foggy night, or in a snow storm or thunder storm.

Are these systems available, because I can see a day when they will be
available in cars. Imaging coming across a foggy patch of road and
flipping on the old FLIR system to see where the curve in the road is
or whether there's a bunch of cars piling up in front of you.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:03:48 GMT, Shiver Me Timbers
wrote:

Like many armchair pilots and lurkers I enjoy the general discussion
aviation in general, particularily homebuilding.

Now if I was in a position to actually build a plane, considering I
live in Canada with lots of lakes and rivers I would look at some sort
of amphibian as my first choice... like a Coot perhaps, or else
something like a Bearhawk on floats or amphibs.

Well, knowing this newsgroup, I know you'll get at least one response about
the Bearhawk. :-)

Now my curious question back... and perhaps Del could take a shot at
this considering where he lives and the fog and weather that he would
encounter in some of the coastal and inland regions.

How about a FLIR installed. Pointing forwards obviously.

Cost aside.... What sort of benefit could a pilot get from being able
to see what's ahead of them by having a FLIR display in the cockpit.

[SNIP]

Are these systems available, because I can see a day when they will be
available in cars. Imaging coming across a foggy patch of road and
flipping on the old FLIR system to see where the curve in the road is
or whether there's a bunch of cars piling up in front of you.

Didn't Cadillac or someone have a low-light vision system a few years back?
ISTR a commercial showing a couple of deer crossing a heads-up type
display.

FLIR would certainly make an interesting accessory to some types of planes,
especially bush airplanes. It almost certainly would have to be a HUD-type
display, I think....seems like it's be awkward switching from a
panel-mounted display to the windshield during approach. It's one thing
when you've got a co-pilot trained in operating both the aircraft and the
FLIR; it's another when your co-pilot is a half-asleep tourist. Might be
better to have a military-style NVG mounted on your headset.

I've never used FLIRs or other night-vision equipment, but one system's
specs (SPI T14) looks like they're pretty low resolution. Don't know how
well they'd work showing a set of power lines at low altitude and ~100
knots. But I expect the military is trained to do it...

Ron Wanttaja

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:07:41 GMT, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:03:48 GMT, Shiver Me Timbers
wrote:

Well, knowing this newsgroup, I know you'll get at least one response about
the Bearhawk. :-)

Now my curious question back... and perhaps Del could take a shot at
this considering where he lives and the fog and weather that he would
encounter in some of the coastal and inland regions.

How about a FLIR installed. Pointing forwards obviously.

Cost aside.... What sort of benefit could a pilot get from being able
to see what's ahead of them by having a FLIR display in the cockpit.

Responding to Ron's post rather than directly to try to keep this
contained in one thread....

The bottom line for me:

1) I am low time and don't have any business ****ing around in the
weather.

2) I don't need to fly anywhere bad enough that I will consider
****ing around in the weather. People who fly in Alaska recognize
that sometimes you get stuck out in BFE waiting for weather to pass
and plan accordingly (or they should).

3) Up here, if you are flying around in the weather, chances are you
are in icing conditions. No Thank You....

4) Weight. All of that extra equipment that I won't be using for the
above reasons cuts into my useful load of people, gear, fuel, ammo,
and dead animal flesh.

From a practical standpoint, I am planning to install an electric
attitude indicator and some sort of moving map GPS as emergency
equipment in case the weather closes in around me in a situation where
there is no good place to land and wait it out.


================================================== ==
Del Rawlins--
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply

Shiver Me Timbers wrote:

Ron Wanttaja wrote:



So, Shiver, what are you building? If you're not building, what are you
thinking of building? If you're not planning on building, what's your
favorite homebuilt? Why? What kind of "mission" do you have and what kind
of planes do you think will meet them? What kind of panel would you
install? What do you feel about the longevity of the various materials?
How do the homebuilding rules in your country differ from those in the US?

Ron Wanttaja


Well Ron my days of building are pretty much over.

I think we'd all pretty much figured this out...

Matt

In article , Shiver Me Timbers says...

My point is simple. Considering the historical importance of what took
place today and the fact that the thread in question was to allow the
regulars here to congratulate and give accolades to Burt Rutan and his
team, why would Chuck decide that he just had to somehow interject
the Zoom and Juan factor into the equation instead of just coming in
like everyone else, congratulating Burt as he richly deserved, and just
shutting the **** up about his personal and ongoing problems with Zoom.

Mr Shiver
I don't think you did your homework before you decided to chime in. You said I
didn't congratulate Rutan for the SS1.Here's one of the posts I put up the other
day.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article , Richard Lamb says...

Absolutely breath taking flight!

I caught it real time on CNN (surprise)

That Miles character sure can talk alot!

Sure was . Usually famous people are famous because of doing something really
great. Rutan has done 2 great things with the prospect of even more. I never
thought he could top the round the world flight but he sure did ...in spades!!
Hats off to him and all his crew.

Chuck S

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

There were a couple more but point made.I also wrote to the Rutan web site to
offer my congratulations. So if your going to criticize please get your facts
correct before making accusations. That's the same problem I have with zoom and
jaun.

This isn't Chuck's day, nor Zooms nor Juans..... It's Burt Rutans day
and those directly involved in the fantastic accomplishment that took
place today in outer space. There's that old saying of knowing when to
hold them and when to fold them, and in my humble opinion today Chuck
showed no more intelligence or comman sense than Zoom does in deciding
when and where to blow his nose.

zoom and jaun made it an issue when they bragged about his deep involvement with
the program and zoom being the pool reporter. I was merely commenting on the
fact that zoom was nowhere in sight. If this detracted from Burt's Day then I'm
getting a lot more credit then I deserve and besides Rutan has nothing to do
with me and zoom.


And since I like to think that I know when to hold them and when
to fold them, this is me saying that I have made my point and if
someone wants to spit at me for pointing out the obvious then
folks help yourselves.

Seems like you starting spitting first and as far as pointing out the obvious.It
would seem obvious that you have an agenda, I've "never"
seen you point out the obvious when the author was jaun or zoom but you sure
jumped out at me. Hmmmm

Have a nice day
Chuck RAH-14/1 ret