Draconian Club Checkrides?

tony roberts wrote:
It is very possible that it is an insurance requirement - go talk to
them! Ask THEM why.


So what if it is? They're going to run him through this song and dance every
three months any time he doesn't fly a particular model? Back in the days when
I was renting regularly, I would get a checkout in a particular model and that
was it. Maybe an hour, never to be repeated, even if I hadn't flown that
particular model for a good while.

If the flying club has insurance that crappy, that doesn't change the fact they
have PITA policies in place. Take the train.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

In article .com,
"Clay" wrote:

When I do a checkout I tell them in advance what is expected.
After the ground rules and rituals of renting are explained, we fly.
Normal, short field and x-wind take off and landing.
Stalls, slow flight and emergency landing proceedures.
I have done checkouts which have lasted more than an hour but most are
less than an hour.
If the person is close to the time a BFR is due, the checkout can be
tailored to meet the FAA requirements. This is all explained in
advance of the flight.
I agree it seems silly to have to be checked out everytime you rent
somewhere new.
You must realize they have to cover their rears. Their rational is
just because a person may have a current pilot certificate, medical,
and logged time in a perticular make and model does not always mean the
person is qualified to fly. Insurance requirements are not always the
same.
Use the checkout to hone your skills and show the CFI you are a pilot.
Fly like you are on a check ride with the D.E.

Yes, but I've flow with this CFI in the last 6 months in these very
152s! A full presolo stage check!

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

How gracefully did you fire the CFI? Sounds like you may have burned a
bridge.

"Chris Schmelzer" wrote in message
...

Anyhow, I ended up firing my CFI

Sounds to me like they're just trying to run up the hours for
the CFIs. I've never had a checkout that lasted more than
an hour. Whether giving or receiving one.


"Chris Schmelzer" wrote in message
...
I wanted to run this by everyone to see if I was being reasonable being
upset.

I started flying as a student in December, 2003. I joined a local
non-profit club to do my training and flew exclusively with them for
almost a year.

This includes approximately 50 hours of time in two C152s, including
12-15 hours of local solo time, night xc, night landings, etc.

When it came to the time where I was ready to solo xc my instructor kept
stalling, calling for more 'ground time' before I could do my stage
check, in what I believe was a combination of his inexperience and need
for a few bucks.

Anyhow, I ended up firing my CFI and completed my training at Stinson
Field in San Antonio (in C172s) while there on Air Force active duty
over the past two months. Past my written and my checkride on the first
try and now hold a full private pilot.

Now I'm back home and want to fly with the club. My last flight in the
152 with my old instructor was within 100 days or so as was my last solo
in that aircraft. I inquired about getting checked out in the clubs
C172 and they are saying two full lesson slots, probably 4 hours of
instructor time (including re-proving navigation ability) for the 172,
despite me having 14 hours in the last 60 days in a C172.

But that isn't the big kicker! They won't let me fly the C152s! They
want me to do a full checkout (2-3 hours minimum) in the VERY 152s I was
solo signed off on just 3 months prior! Doesn't this seem a little
ridiculous? They felt I was competent to fly them as a STUDENT after
the CFI said "go fly" but now that the FAA says I'm qualified to fly
without a CFI I have to do a 2-3 hour checkride in the exact same
airplane?

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.
I mean, after I finished my PPL checkride at Stinson, they didn't then
say, "Well, you can fly after a checkride!"

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

Hey there Mort! I didn't know you flew (I see you in the Nursing
newsgroup)..

I will admit it sounds like THIS club is overly draconian, but not all are.

I have had the pleasure of being a member of two separate flying clubs
that assessed monthly dues, one of which continues to operate (Bay Area
Aero Club @ KLVJ and "The Flying Group" formerly of KEFD, both in/near
Houston)

Monthly dues in their latest form were about $20/month. For that fee,
you had access to a fleet that ranged as large as 10 planes (this
varied, all were leasebacks), were well maintained, less abused
(subjective, I know), MORE available and all around just nicer looking
than your typical flight school rental fleet. We had online scheduling,
true 24 hour access with keys in a lockbox, the still-functioning club
(Bay Area) truly insures the pilot, plane and occupants so that renters
insurance is not necessary (yes... I did say the PILOT was covered, no
subrogation here).

If you fly more than a few hours a month, the dues "disappear" into the
hourly cost and really arent that noticeable. The appeal to the clubs so
far has been the fleet: Many of the leasebacks have nice (430's, MFD's)
avionics packages, are clean and well appointed inside. Its not a big
deal to rent one over the weekend for a cross country trip. Most of the
local flight schools balk at a long trip in one of their planes, when it
could be making twice as many hours working instruction locally.

So.. yea.. that club in question doesn't seem to be "all that"... but...
I have to wonder.. when you (original poster) joined the club, didn't
they orient you to the organization, and explicitly describe the
check-out requirements and rules? or did you just join up and start
instruction without any knowledge of what the rules were?

Dave

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

Chris Schmelzer wrote:

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.



I understand your reticence but I would leave that Mickey Mouse outfit behind
and rent from a real FBO. No dues. You only pay for what you actually do.

Does this make ANY sense to any of you?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. The kind of people who like to make rules
join clubs so they can. There are a few good clubs out there, and the
majority are like the one you're dealing with. Go down the road to the
FBO.

BTW - an instructor who needs more than 30 minutes to figure out if you
can fly competently is himself incompetent.

Michael

"Michael" wrote:
Does this make ANY sense to any of you?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. The kind of people who like to make rules
join clubs so they can.

Yep, and they rise to the top because the other people in the club want to do
what the club's really about: fly, hunt, restore old cars, whatever, so the
mini-Hitlers become officers by default.

There are a few good clubs out there, and the
majority are like the one you're dealing with.

I must say that the current edition of my aero club strikes a nice balance
between rules and freedom thanks to a long serving, sensible president. As
in all organizations, leadership is everything.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

But do you do a 1 hour checkout in a 152 right after checking the guy
out in a 172? Most places don't require any checkout for a 152 for 172
drivers.

-Robert, CFI

In article . com,
"Michael" wrote:

Does this make ANY sense to any of you?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. The kind of people who like to make rules
join clubs so they can. There are a few good clubs out there, and the
majority are like the one you're dealing with. Go down the road to the
FBO.

BTW - an instructor who needs more than 30 minutes to figure out if you
can fly competently is himself incompetent.

Michael



I agree with the BTW statement. When I taught ACLS (Advanced Cardiac
Life Support) I could figure out in less than 10 whether someone was
going to be a star or a flop. In fact, the longer the scenario went on,
the worse the student was performing.

My checkride was about 2 hours (a leisurely two hours) of discussion,
which actually was a lot of fun believe it or not. My in-air time was
less than an hour, as everything he asked me to do was snap snap snap,
right by the book, just as I had trainedd.

I'm going to drop my club membership and go with the private FBO who
seems MORE than happy to jump at taking care of me. I did have to buy
renters insurance to cover liability and $5k deductibles, but it was
only $200, and I renewed my AOPA and added the legal plan at the same
time..

-Chris

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

"Chris Schmelzer" wrote in message
...
Now I'm back home and want to fly with the club. My last flight in the
152 with my old instructor was within 100 days or so as was my last solo
in that aircraft. I inquired about getting checked out in the clubs
C172 and they are saying two full lesson slots, probably 4 hours of
instructor time (including re-proving navigation ability) for the 172,
despite me having 14 hours in the last 60 days in a C172.

But that isn't the big kicker! They won't let me fly the C152s! They
want me to do a full checkout (2-3 hours minimum) in the VERY 152s I was
solo signed off on just 3 months prior! Doesn't this seem a little
ridiculous?

I've rented from eight different FBOs from the east coast to the west coast.
All require a checkout ride in any make and model of plane that you haven't
rented from them within the previous 90 days. However, they only require a
one-hour checkout ride (if all goes well). And I believe (though I'm not
certain) that they would probably waive a 152 checkout if you're current
with them for 172s, and have flown their 152s in the fairly recent past.

--Gary