Stand by for more regulations/restrictions

Clyde Woempner wrote:
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC.

If it only were a TFR. The FAA finally relented and stopped
calling it temporary quite some time ago.

I, for one, would like to see a much greater emphasis put on flight
following. Yes, I know the PIC is still ultimately responsible no matter
he's told over the radio, but I would prefer if ATC had an obligation to
provide FF upon request absent unusual circumstances.

Les


"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good
pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been
flying for 35 years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

Where did you hear that?


Supposition on my part, but what else could it be? The alternative is
to assume that a pilot with THIRTY-FIVE YEARS of experience was unable to
navigate around the most heavily defended (and publicized) ADIZ in the
world!

Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.

My supposition was that some yutz took off from PA, hit direct to
Lumberton on his non-aviation GPS, and just followed that line, come hell,
high water, or TFRs. Then I heard on the news that the student pilot's
family had said he had been concerned about avoiding the ADIZ. So how did
they get into it? It'll be interesting to see what the details are, when
they come out.

"JH" == Jay Honeck writes:
JH What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
JH ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
JH ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
JH you and your rules" attitude.

Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
anything, and never will. Right.

Sure the pilots should not have busted the ADIZ. But maybe the
fundamental problem is our continously eroding freedoms (accompanied
by ever more shrill proclamations by politicians about liberty).

JH What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
JH ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
JH ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
JH you and your rules" attitude.

Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
anything, and never will. Right.

Come on, Bob. Stop defending this dolt.

We all make mistakes -- but not over the White House.

This guy made so many mistakes end-to-end that it's hard to see anything but
incompetence, a jerk, or both.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

xyzzy wrote:

So how did they get into it? It'll be interesting to see what the
details are, when they come out.

You won't find them here. So far, we have reports that their radio was out,
another report that they spoke to the fighters on 121.5. We have a report that
they were squawking 1200, and other reports that they got and were squawking an
appropriate ADIZ code. Even if someone who knows the facts posts them, they'll
be lost in the garbage and contrary opinions.

The media is going to be just as bad. My personal opinion is that AOPA will be
the best source of information, but they'll probably want to keep as quiet as
they can and let this die down.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

HA! Touche! Unless of course he thought he was at a different airport and
therefore talking on a different frequency. That has happened more times at
my Class D airport than I care to think about.


"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
Marco Leon mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:
If a pilot can't navigate to within +/- 30 miles of accuracy [...] I
for one don't want to be sharing the pattern with that guy.

Actually, I don't think you have to worry about that. If he can't
find the airport, you won't be sharing the pattern with him :-)



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In article , says...

Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
own worst enemy.
Clyde


I don't think it's correct to assume that the incident will lead to further
regulations. Instead, I think there is pressure on pilots, and AOPA, to show
they are being proactive about it and self-policing. I think AOPA will have
to make a statement, and this will have to include voluntary measures that
satisfy the FAA's sense of effectiveness. Boyer will be smart enough not to
take the defense of these pilots, as this would invite further regulatory
measures.

The PIC can, and in my own opinion should, face certificate action from the
FAA. The fact that the police decided not to pursue criminal charges, because
there was no criminal intent, does not preclude civil action from the FAA.

In practical terms, we have to accept the existence of these areas, both the
fixed and temporary types, and the fact that they are taken very seriously.
We have to show that we are on top of it by implementing awareness measures
and improving effectiveness of the tools we already have. How do you bet that
150 had a portable GPS on board? Most planes in the US do these days.
It's possible that that tool could have helped them avoid this situation, had
TFR/ADIZ avoidance been given a higher priority in their planning.

Incidents like this one have to be reduced to zero and fast - this type of
publicity is really bad for all of us.

G Faris

Well Clyde...
I'm sure you KNOW that the problem with that 150 was that they had NARCO
radios in it.

You KNOW that, don't you?

Damn NARCO radios!


Clyde Woempner wrote:
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
own worst enemy.
Clyde

Jim Burns wrote:

What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good

pilot,

and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for

35

years and screw you and your rules" attitude.


Show up at an airport, any day, and you'll be suprised how often you see
this attitude. What sucks is that it isn't brought to the attention of
on-looking students so they can learn that it is wrong and that no matter
how old you get or how many hours you have in your log book, stupid is still
stupid. It seems that only after a preventible mistake, incident, or
accident occurs do other pilots start commenting about it and other people
learn from their blood.

I'd be willing to bet that somewhere there is a pilot that has questioned
this instructors methods, decision making, planning, or attitude in the

Turns out neither pilot was an instructor, according to AOPA.

Giving resolution of this matter some thought. In my opinion the honorable
thing would be for the PIC of the C150 to apologize to the pilot community
(through AOPA), voluntarily give up flying and return his certificates to
the FAA. No hearings, no lawyers, no further fuss. He should hang his head
in shame. I also believe, as was stated earlier, that "shunning" is an
appropriate response from the aviation community towards this individual who
seems very deficient in navigating skills. Another interesting question.
What did his last BFR consist of? Does he not know how to navigate or did he
demonstrate that he could plot an appropriate course and just not follow
that training on Wednesday?

Howard
C182