Stand by for more regulations/restrictions

JH What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
JH ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
JH ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
JH you and your rules" attitude.

Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
anything, and never will. Right.

Come on, Bob. Stop defending this dolt.

We all make mistakes -- but not over the White House.

This guy made so many mistakes end-to-end that it's hard to see anything but
incompetence, a jerk, or both.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:_9Vge.77272$WI3.30450@attbi_s71...
JH What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
JH ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
JH ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
JH you and your rules" attitude.

Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
anything, and never will. Right.

Come on, Bob. Stop defending this dolt.

We all make mistakes -- but not over the White House.

This guy made so many mistakes end-to-end that it's hard to see anything
but incompetence, a jerk, or both.

He made a fool of himself and he made a fool of all the police and the
security apparatus, the Congress, etc.

On that basis, surely it is time for all to sit down see how daft it all is
and come up with a rational way forward.

Just a transatlantic view and its sad to see the most powerful nation in the
world all f***ed up by an old man in a 150.

Come on guys, get a grip and give some comfort to the world you are supposed
to be leading.

On 5/12/05 11:52, "Marco Leon" mmleonatyahoo.com wrote:

There are a lot of posts defending GA. I find that my patience is waning for
pilots that violate the DC airspace. We've only had, what--four years of
constant drilling on the ADIZ procedures and their level of importance? In
the era of $250 handheld GPS's and flight following, there is zero excuse
for getting lost in the DC area. What's it going to take? Mandatory
revocations of licenses? Aircraft confiscations? a shootdown??

I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
problem is going down a similar path.

Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
program with higher visibility.

my 2 cents. Flame on.

Marco Leon

Well said, Marco.

Flying is a privilege, not a right, as is driving a car. If one has
demonstrated the incapacity to fly responsible, that privilege should be
revoked.

- Don
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

"No Spam" wrote in message
...
Flying is a privilege, not a right, as is driving a car. If one has
demonstrated the incapacity to fly responsible, that privilege should be
revoked.

No flying is a right available to anyone who can prove that they can safely
exercise the right. It is not a privilege. US pilots do not have licenses to
fly, they have certificates that just document ability. Like all rights that
involve public safety this one can be regulated and people exercising the
right must comply with regulations. The pilot in this case will lose his
pilot certificate as he proved he is unable to exercise his right to fly
safely and responsibly.

"Clyde Woempner" wrote in message
...
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a
lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are
our
own worst enemy.
Clyde


Okay, so on the one hand, you are absolutely correct.

On the other hand, as soon as pointing out that the pilot was clearly not
being one of our best representatives, shouldn't we point out the idiocy of
the response?

Seriously. You have a C150 flying over the capital (being escorted by two
F16's which we can assume are armed). Isn't evacuation a little overkill?
If he had vectored towards a likely target, can we not assume he would have
been shot down by air or ground defenses? Are we equally well defended and
ready for attack by truck? Truck barriers are easaily defeated using a two
truck attack.

How about we run screaming for the hills whenever anything larger than a van
is seen in DC? After all, the only supposed threat from a plane smaller
than cabin class is an NBC weapon that everyone with any sense knows is more
effectively delivered by truck.

The real question is: Why are our leaders are so foolish to fall for their
own feel good rhetoric?

Clyde Woempner wrote:
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC.

If it only were a TFR. The FAA finally relented and stopped
calling it temporary quite some time ago.

In article , says...

Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
own worst enemy.
Clyde


I don't think it's correct to assume that the incident will lead to further
regulations. Instead, I think there is pressure on pilots, and AOPA, to show
they are being proactive about it and self-policing. I think AOPA will have
to make a statement, and this will have to include voluntary measures that
satisfy the FAA's sense of effectiveness. Boyer will be smart enough not to
take the defense of these pilots, as this would invite further regulatory
measures.

The PIC can, and in my own opinion should, face certificate action from the
FAA. The fact that the police decided not to pursue criminal charges, because
there was no criminal intent, does not preclude civil action from the FAA.

In practical terms, we have to accept the existence of these areas, both the
fixed and temporary types, and the fact that they are taken very seriously.
We have to show that we are on top of it by implementing awareness measures
and improving effectiveness of the tools we already have. How do you bet that
150 had a portable GPS on board? Most planes in the US do these days.
It's possible that that tool could have helped them avoid this situation, had
TFR/ADIZ avoidance been given a higher priority in their planning.

Incidents like this one have to be reduced to zero and fast - this type of
publicity is really bad for all of us.

G Faris

Well Clyde...
I'm sure you KNOW that the problem with that 150 was that they had NARCO
radios in it.

You KNOW that, don't you?

Damn NARCO radios!


Clyde Woempner wrote:
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
own worst enemy.
Clyde

I have no idea what radio's they have, and I don't care, but I know I would
never buy another Narco Product, based on my experience with this company.
In fact I don't have the Narco anymore, I took it out and trashed it, it has
a happy home in a dump someplace, just where it belongs.
Clyde

"Rich" wrote in message
...
Well Clyde...
I'm sure you KNOW that the problem with that 150 was that they had NARCO
radios in it.

You KNOW that, don't you?

Damn NARCO radios!


Clyde Woempner wrote:
Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a
lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's
so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are
our
own worst enemy.
Clyde

Giving resolution of this matter some thought. In my opinion the honorable
thing would be for the PIC of the C150 to apologize to the pilot community
(through AOPA), voluntarily give up flying and return his certificates to
the FAA. No hearings, no lawyers, no further fuss. He should hang his head
in shame. I also believe, as was stated earlier, that "shunning" is an
appropriate response from the aviation community towards this individual who
seems very deficient in navigating skills. Another interesting question.
What did his last BFR consist of? Does he not know how to navigate or did he
demonstrate that he could plot an appropriate course and just not follow
that training on Wednesday?

Howard
C182