ASW-24

Udo Rumpf wrote:
Of course it would be true, at 80km/k you would be flying to slow
if you tried to thermal.
This is minimum sink speed in level flight at 6.5 lb/sqft.
at 7.5 lb/sqft you would be approaching stall speed.

To recap the ASW24 does not have to be flown any faster then
other glider of its type. Two gliders you have mentioned have a much
lighter wingloading and the Discus and the ASW24 with 7.5 lb/sqft
will fly at about the same speed.

Now I know how misinformation gets started.

Regards
Udo

Udo,

A related question in terms of data points. How significant is the
in-flight CG on climb performance? It's purely subjective, but my LS8
seems to climb markedly better now that I've moved the CG back to about
80% of aft limit (from a previous 45%). Locically, aft CG would
reduce the amount of lift (nose up pitch) required of the
elevator/stabilizer, reducing induced drag from these surfaces. As a
percentage of total induced drag I'm sure this relatively small, but is
it significant?

Erik Mann (P3)

Eric
From my initial set-up I flew with a C of G in the 50% to 55% range.
This worked out nicely. The up elevator in climb was identical
to the down in cruise. I was happy with this compromise.
Then I loaded water 55 litres in each tank about 240 lb total.
To thermal, I needed much more control input and up elevator,
due to the water being ahead of the C of G. Also I had the sense,
aside from being heavier, it was not climbing as well. This could
have been subjective. I added 5 lb to the tail and the handling
improved and felt just as before when dry.
I was surprised when I dumped the water how much more nimble
and responsive but still very comfortable it felt. I am flying dry now
at 85% C of G. The elevator with the new C of G, once the bank and turn
is established, has a minimal up deflection but in cruise the elevator
is even more in a down deflection. This causes more drag. This can
be corrected by placing a washer under the bolt attachment of the
stab to reduce the angle of incidence to reduce the down deflection
in cruise. Ideally the ASW 24 should have a tail tank.
Anyone know of someone that made this mod on the 24?
Regards
Udo



"Papa3" wrote in message
ups.com...


Udo Rumpf wrote:
Of course it would be true, at 80km/k you would be flying to slow
if you tried to thermal.
This is minimum sink speed in level flight at 6.5 lb/sqft.
at 7.5 lb/sqft you would be approaching stall speed.

To recap the ASW24 does not have to be flown any faster then
other glider of its type. Two gliders you have mentioned have a much
lighter wingloading and the Discus and the ASW24 with 7.5 lb/sqft
will fly at about the same speed.

Now I know how misinformation gets started.

Regards
Udo

Udo,

A related question in terms of data points. How significant is the
in-flight CG on climb performance? It's purely subjective, but my LS8
seems to climb markedly better now that I've moved the CG back to about
80% of aft limit (from a previous 45%). Locically, aft CG would
reduce the amount of lift (nose up pitch) required of the
elevator/stabilizer, reducing induced drag from these surfaces. As a
percentage of total induced drag I'm sure this relatively small, but is
it significant?

Erik Mann (P3)

At 19:30 27 May 2005, Bob Johnson wrote:
Papa3 wrote:

Udo Rumpf wrote:

Eric
The elevator with the new C of G, once the bank and
turn
is established, has a minimal up deflection but in
cruise the elevator
is even more in a down deflection. This causes more
drag. This can
be corrected by placing a washer under the bolt attachment
of the
stab to reduce the angle of incidence to reduce the
down deflection
in cruise. Ideally the ASW 24 should have a tail tank.
Anyone know of someone that made this mod on the 24?
Regards
Udo



What you really need is a lead weight on a track mounted
in the
fuselage driven by a small motor. Move the weight
back for climb.
Move it forward for cruise :-)) Actually, the flight
research
department at my University had this installed in
Navions. I guess
I'm only half-joking...

P3

Reminds me of the 'mercury pump' gadget Moffat supposedly
revealed to
his fellow contestants on the start grid one long-ago
day.

Didn't matter whether it worked or not, the other guys
were so psyced
out they were beaten before they hooked up.

Bob Johnson


Moffat comes from a racing sailboat tradition, where
trickery is admired if not the norm and where clever
rule beating devices are constantly developed. I heard
of one sailor who, not allowed ballast at his weighing,
put several boxes of tomato soup (highest specific
gravity) in the bilges as crew provisions.

I never met George and I'm not accusing him of cheating,
but the out-psych'em strategy is certainly a NE tradition.

Hy its probably a bit late for this thread but i thought, this would be a good adress for what i'm searching for.
I'm looking for some nixon winglets for my 24, are there any tips where i could order a pair or if they are still available they could also be used already or even damaged. Sadly i found nothing on the internet and there are also no other 24 owners with nixon winglets here in switzerland.
Would be cool if someone still reads this haha.
greetings and thank you from switzerland
Yves Müller ASW 24 HB-3008 "CRN"

As I understand it, there are three different sets of winglets for the ASW-24. I had the Nixon ones and liked them. I think there is a Mark Maughmer designed winglet and also a factory winglet.

One of Rex's rentals has the Maughmer set and the other has one of the others.


On Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 4:54:34 PM UTC-7, Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks

My aerodynamic interest is piqued.Â* As small as winglets are with
respect to the wings, can you notice or measure a performance difference
between the three different types of winglets mentioned in this thread?

On 3/9/2018 5:30 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
As I understand it, there are three different sets of winglets for the ASW-24. I had the Nixon ones and liked them. I think there is a Mark Maughmer designed winglet and also a factory winglet.

One of Rex's rentals has the Maughmer set and the other has one of the others.


On Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 4:54:34 PM UTC-7, Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks

--
Dan, 5J

At 15:36 10 March 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:
My aerodynamic interest is piqued.Â* As small as winglets are with
respect to the wings, can you notice or measure a performance
difference
between the three different types of winglets mentioned in this
thread?

On 3/9/2018 5:30 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
As I understand it, there are three different sets of winglets for
the
ASW-24. I had the Nixon ones and liked them. I think there is a
Mark
Maughmer designed winglet and also a factory winglet.

One of Rex's rentals has the Maughmer set and the other has
one of the
others.


On Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 4:54:34 PM UTC-7, Lee Rusconi
wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks
Dan, 5J


Yes. The factory winglets help noticeably with slow speed handling,
especially climbing in bumpy lift. They do hinder at the higher
speeds though. The Maughmer winglets provide the better climb
performance while not hindering the higher speed glide
performance. Personal observation experience (not scientifically
measured) from having 2 ASW-24's over a period of 10 years.

RO

Yes.
Chip, Hank and I were at a contest in Elmira many years ago. Chip was not convinced about winglets for the -24 yet.
We had an off day, so testing insued.
Chip flew his -24 with an early "Nixon slip on winglet" (no wing cutting needed), I flew Hanks -24 with an early Nixon winglet that required cutting the wing and Hank flew his -20 chatting and watching from behind so he could see.

We did straight runs at different speeds to check glide as well as thermaling with Chip and I alternating who led.
Minor gains on the later winglets vs. the slip ons, both were better than no winglets.
The big difference was in, "Yank and bank rough thermals". I could fairly consistently turn inside Chip in a hot spot and get above him.

So yes, stock vs. Nixon slip on or cut the wing was better with a winglet. Later "cut the wing" Nixon winglets were even better all around.
Not sure if they were tested against other brand winglets, likely, but I don't remember.

AFAIK, Chip may still even have those slip on winglets........

I recall that day very well, Charlie. I had been uncertain about winglets only until KS outclimbed me in a survival thermal at Littlefield with early Maughmer winglets when my ship was new. Once I started flying with UH's "slip on" winglets a year later, there was no going back. I could outclimb non-winglet 24s (and many other types) but the big difference was better low-speed handling.

My impression was that these early UH tips were better than the factory's. On more than one occasion, I was able to climb away from 24s with the factory winglets in weak thermals where I was pretty sure wing loading was not a factor.

It's true that on that day, Charlie was able to climb through me pretty convincingly with a later version of UH's tips. But the cross-over point in glide on that early developmental design was a little too low for me (75-80 kts?).

However, UH continued to refine his design and the final version retained the superior climb with no perceivable loss at the high-speed end. That's when I made the switch. I've been flying with them for 15 years and consider them essential. They're also Schleicher approved, now.

Chip Bearden

On Wednesday, May 25, 2005 at 7:54:34 PM UTC-4, Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks

I own an ASW24 that once belonged to a wonderful man named Ray Galloway, P1..
My wife and I fly the 24 often and I think it is an excellent flying and handling bird.I do agree that it needed a water tank in the tail. I made lead weights to insert in the rear top of the vertical fin. Only drawback is that my wife must always remove the tail surface and remove the weights before flight. My thermal speed depends on the thermal, strong days I find myself going a bit faster, and on weaker days maybe 45 or so. Bob