engine shop pireps wanted

Stephen N Mills wrote:

Costs: Our A&P has recommended three engine shops: America's Aircraft
(OK), Airmark Engines (FL), and Graham Engines (GA). I have talked to
all three. Each advised cam replacement, not major overhaul.

I would pay attention to them. I think your A&P is going a bit overboard.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

What is the condition of the rest of the engine? What are the
compressions? (Consider giving it an automotive style compression test
also, those sometimes reveal things a static one won't). End play on
the crank? Oil usage? Oil seepage out the ends of the engine? Does the
cockpit smell oily when the heater is on? Scope the cylinders. Valve
wear?

No one really KNOWS what the future of your engine may be. It is a pity
the previous rebuild did this. Perhaps they did not replace the cam?
What else didn't they replace? (the bearings?). If all they did was
top it, you did ok. But if all they did was top it, perhaps you should
go for a full rebuild now. The bottom line is: HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU
HAVE? Do the best you can afford.

OK,
Here's another point to consider.
About 4 years ago I had a couple of bad cylinders on a Continental
IO520. All in all I decided to "fix it up and get a couple of more
years out of it". Good economy, right?

Turned out that the cost of overhauls for that engine have climbed
$8,600 since that time! (Using a Superior quote as a benchmark...
$18,900 up to $27,500).

Getting "a few more years out of it" turned out to be VERY false economy.

All other factors aside, give some consideration to the economy of
overhauling it NOW to avoid price increases. The costs of metals and
metal parts have been rising astronomically in recent years!

Rich


Doug wrote:


No one really KNOWS what the future of your engine may be. It is a pity
the previous rebuild did this. Perhaps they did not replace the cam?
What else didn't they replace? (the bearings?). If all they did was
top it, you did ok. But if all they did was top it, perhaps you should
go for a full rebuild now. The bottom line is: HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU
HAVE? Do the best you can afford.

Steve, the reality is that the inactive partner will refuse to spring
the extra bucks for a reman engine... So, you and active partner will
have to pay the difference... Based on your posting I suspect that is
not in the works... You will, in the end, decide on replacing the cam
and lifters and taking a chance on the engine making TBO.... No FBO
would OH at 750 hours - he would IRAN and put it back in service...

So, quit gnashing teeth - consider you and active partner pulling the
engine in the hangar, boxing it, and shipping to the engine shop for
IRAN... On return you two move the plane to the A&P shop, help him
with the install and get his sign off on the logs... Easy money for
him, less expense for you, and both of you get some great experience...
win-win...

denny

Stephen N Mills wrote:
Advice? Any advice about the path to take, and any pireps on the three
engine shops mentioned (or any others) will be most humbly and
gratefully received.

If you're just replacing the cam, you don't need an overhaul shop.

Either way, replacing the cam or the complete overhaul, I'd go with a local shop
rather than shipping parts all over the country. Just imagine what happens when
everything doesn't quite come together right afterward, and you are pursuing
warrantee fulfillment with a shop several states away. Even if the shop is
desirous of helping, the distance makes it a hassle. There's got to be someplace
in Atlanta or nearby that can do the work.

Advice? Any advice about the path to take, and any pireps on the three
engine shops mentioned (or any others) will be most humbly and
gratefully received.

If you're just replacing the cam, you don't need an overhaul shop.

Either way, replacing the cam or the complete overhaul, I'd go with a local shop
rather than shipping parts all over the country.

That's a great point.

We have been very happy with our decision to use our local shop to
rebuild our O-540 in 2002. Although you still end up shipping *some*
parts all over the place, and (of course) the new engine parts come
from the factory. (In our case, Superior, which has allowed us to
dodge ALL of the Lycoming O-540 ADs thus far...)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:


Advice? Any advice about the path to take, and any pireps on the three
engine shops mentioned (or any others) will be most humbly and
gratefully received.

If you're just replacing the cam, you don't need an overhaul shop.

Either way, replacing the cam or the complete overhaul, I'd go with a local shop
rather than shipping parts all over the country.


That's a great point.

We have been very happy with our decision to use our local shop to
rebuild our O-540 in 2002. Although you still end up shipping *some*
parts all over the place, and (of course) the new engine parts come
from the factory. (In our case, Superior, which has allowed us to
dodge ALL of the Lycoming O-540 ADs thus far...)

On the other hand, if you are planning to sell before your next TBO, you
might consider a nationally known shop. In general, I think buyers
prefer an engine by a nationally known shop instead of a local guy they
know nothing about (assuming you want to be able to sell to non-local
buyers). I know when I have looked at engine logbooks, an overhaul by a
small shop that I can't find information on by googling is a turnoff.

On the other hand, if you are planning to sell before your next TBO, you
might consider a nationally known shop. In general, I think buyers prefer
an engine by a nationally known shop instead of a local guy they know
nothing about (assuming you want to be able to sell to non-local buyers).
I know when I have looked at engine logbooks, an overhaul by a small shop
that I can't find information on by googling is a turnoff.

Good, valid points.

On the OTHER other hand, most really good planes sell locally without
advertising.

And, of course, assuming you're planning to keep your plane, it doesn't
matter at all.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Seems to me that for this decision you need to understand what the
other parts
are like. What kind of OH was it? New cylinders?

A wise mechanic who OH one of my engines always put in new camshafts.
His
theory: You hang the camshaft on a string and build the engine around
it. A re-ground
one might not make it thru the second OH.

So was this last OH to service limits? If so, it's talking to you. If
it was a decent OH,
you might be tempted to repair it.

Bill Hale

"Stephen N Mills" wrote in message
...
Vicky, our '75 Cardinal RG, is sick. We changed the oil and got a
report of iron in the oil analysis (from Blackstone) and iron
particles in the filter (from Second OilPinion). Hmmm... 26 tach hours
later, same thing. Pulled a cylinder: yep, cam spalling. (Assume
wailing, rending of garments, gnashing of teeth here)

The engine is a Lycoming IO-360-A1B6D, 750 hours since first major in
Aug 2001

Other factors: 9000 hours on the airframe. Fresh paint, poor (not
'bad') interior. Decent IFR avionics: GX60, KX155 w/ GS, GTX327,
JPI-700, no autopilot. 750 (+?) hours on the dry vacuum pump; this
will be replaced at this time. Also will be replacing with the
lightweight starter.

Human factors: myself and two partners; one of whom is inactive and
has been looking to sell out. We fly about 200 hours a year. With a
new partner, we expect to increase that.

Options: Our A&P is leaning towards a major overhaul rather than just
a cam replacement. I am concerned about possible other damage to the
engine from those iron particles riding around in the oil. But our
inactive partner (I haven't talked to him yet) will probably want to
get out for minimum bucks. Active partner and I are looking at
long-term value. We plan on owning this plane for a long time.

Costs: Our A&P has recommended three engine shops: America's Aircraft
(OK), Airmark Engines (FL), and Graham Engines (GA). I have talked to
all three. Each advised cam replacement, not major overhaul. The price
seems to be about $2000 for our A&P to r&r the engine, ?? for
shipping, and $5000 to $6000 to the engine shop. Time frame of about 3
to 4 weeks at the shop. All of this assumes no additional problems
are found when they open it up.

Wither? While active partner and I would love to get a factory reman'd
non-D engine, that does not seem reasonable. And we don't even want to
think about the cost of that. And even doing a major would move our
current bill from about $8000 to $17000 or more.

Advice? Any advice about the path to take, and any pireps on the three
engine shops mentioned (or any others) will be most humbly and
gratefully received.


N2679V, 'Vicky' '75 RG @ PDK, Atlanta
Steve Mills, in major bummed-out mode