Headwinds, always

You expected tailwinds? Hah Hah!!

Seriously, do pilots here aggressively analyze winds aloft detail as
available on ADDs? I certainly do and can often offset a bad headwind
by flying lower than I would normally, and on occassion even flying
higher. Sometimes, 1 thousand feet above or below the inversion will
give a shift that turns a HW into a TW - or at least shuffles the deck.
For example, going to 10,000 on a day may make that 20 knot quartering
HW turn into 10knot quartering on my tail. And the fuel economy is
great at 10 if the cruise is long enough (doesn't have to be all that
long to justify a climb).

With the amazingly accurate ADDS winds forecast combined with GPS
Groundspeed readouts, I can see the wind shift that normally conincides
with the main temp inversion. Sometimes on the way up to 6 or 7 to get
out of the convection I'll watch my GS drop 8 or 10 knots. By going
back down a thousand I can sometims get the speed back and still remain
out of the bumps. The current tool set can be used to great advantage
at times.

Paul kgyy wrote:
I just returned from an 8-day tour of the midwest. This was a 6-leg
circular route west to Des Moines from Chicago, then up to the Dakotas,
back through Duluth, Green Bay. We mostly flew at 7000 ft. We had
20-30 knot headwinds on 5 of the 6 legs and never once a tailwind.

I once took a trip and had tailwinds both ways! And I've only been
flying for 29 years.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

Yes, I often find signifigantly better winds at different altitudes.
Sometimes it's a tradeoff between bumps or winds and what I do depends
on my mood or passengers. GPS is great for finding the best altitude.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

On 6 Jun 2005 07:27:50 -0700, "Paul kgyy" wrote:

I just returned from an 8-day tour of the midwest. This was a 6-leg
circular route west to Des Moines from Chicago, then up to the Dakotas,
back through Duluth, Green Bay. We mostly flew at 7000 ft. We had
20-30 knot headwinds on 5 of the 6 legs and never once a tailwind.

Wind is not your friend except in the very short term.

Consider the old example taught to students (or should be):

1. 100kt airplane (no wind)
2. 50kt. wind from the west (270)
3. Round trip 400 nm (point A to point B and return)
4. Course from point A to point B is 270

Round trip time with no wind is 4 hours.

With a 50kt headwind the time from point A to point B is 4 hours.
Sure, you've got a tail wind going back, but you will never make up
for the headwind.

Why not? Ginsberg's Theorem, which paraphrases the three fundementals
of thermodynamics. may be a clue.

First Law - You can't win
Second Law - You can't even break even
Third Law - You can't get out of the game

Mike Weller

On 6 Jun 2005 07:27:50 -0700, "Paul kgyy" wrote
in .com::

never once a tailwind.

Most winds have a head wind component; in fact, only winds directly
from directly behind have no head wind component. Quartering winds at
90 degrees to the intended course act to reduce on-course ground
speed, and those quartering winds of up to 60 degrees aft of course
can have a significant head wind component.

The point I'm making is, that of the 360 degrees available for winds
to intersect the intended course, only about 15% are able to result in
a net ground speed increase.

This is from memory, so I'm sure someone will correct me with a more
detailed analysis.

"Paul kgyy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just returned from an 8-day tour of the midwest. This was a 6-leg
circular route west to Des Moines from Chicago, then up to the Dakotas,
back through Duluth, Green Bay. We mostly flew at 7000 ft. We had
20-30 knot headwinds on 5 of the 6 legs and never once a tailwind.


Do your eastbound legs in the afternoon.

"Paul kgyy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just returned from an 8-day tour of the midwest. This was a 6-leg
circular route west to Des Moines from Chicago, then up to the Dakotas,
back through Duluth, Green Bay. We mostly flew at 7000 ft. We had
20-30 knot headwinds on 5 of the 6 legs and never once a tailwind.

Flying the wrong way around a pressure center?

Not that it explains an 82% headwind rate, but all else being equal you'll
have headwinds more than tailwinds, because any wind not parallel to your
heading will force you to crab, which always turns direct crosswinds into
headwinds, never tailwinds.

Pete

Matt Barrow wrote:

Do your eastbound legs in the afternoon.

And go high (usually).

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
[...]
The point I'm making is, that of the 360 degrees available for winds
to intersect the intended course, only about 15% are able to result in
a net ground speed increase.

This is from memory, so I'm sure someone will correct me with a more
detailed analysis.

Of course.

It depends on the strength of the wind.

For example, if you are flying 100 knots, a 20 knot wind from 10 degrees aft
of a direct crosswind gives you a 1.5 knot boost in speed, but a 40 knot
wind from the same direction slows you by 1.1 knots.

The stronger the wind, the more directly behind you it can be and still slow
you down.

That said, your statement that only 15% of the available degrees result in a
true tailwind is plainly false. That would be an arc of only 7.5% degrees
to either direction of straight aft of your heading, when in fact modest
wind speeds even only slight aft of your heading result in a net increase in
groundspeed. And it ignores the fact that it's not simply the direction of
the wind, but also the speed.

It's true that more than 50% of all wind directions and speeds result in a
headwind, but it's only *slightly* more than 50%. Certainly not nearly
enough to explain the original poster's experience.

Pete

Dan Luke wrote:
Flew round trip Mobile - Baton Rouge Saturday, with a 30-minute stop at BTR.

6,000' there, 7,000' back, course 270, 090.

Headwinds both ways.



Maybe my dad wasn't lying about going to and from school barefoot in the snow,
uphill both ways. I stand corrected.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE