Flaperons

"Robertmudd1u" wrote in message
...
I just don't get it. Can anyone successfully explain how flaperons
work? Are they better or worse than seperate flaps? What are the pro's
and con's? It seems to me if one fails you have no recovery.
Lou

Lou,

I have flown several gliders with flaperons but no airplanes so equipped.
The glider I have the most time in is the Apis 13, this has a wing span of
13
meters about 42.5 ft.

The roll rate is great because the entire trailing edge acts as a aileron,
and
the flaps really work well because they are the full span of the trailing
edge,
so independently I get very good results for these controls.

When thermaling with a notch or two of flap I see little if any reduction
in
roll rate, Yes the aileron that is going up does not go as far up as if
the
flaps were at the zero setting, but it does not seem to matter.

Bill Daniels mentioned his glider, which has a 20 meter wing, that is
quite
heavy. It has, (for a glider) a relatively slow roll rate anyway. The Apis
is
much lighter and nimble and so roll control with full flaps is just fine,
in
fact they make the glider a real blast to fly.

The mechanism is quite simple. Each flaperon is driven from its root end
by a
torque rod, the flaperons are center hinged. The flaperons on the Apis are
of
carbon fiber so torque loads are easily handled.

If you are near a glider club look at a DG brand glider, they use
flaperons a
lot in their gliders.

I do not know if they are more effective than separate flaps and ailerons
but
they do cover a larger part of the wing's trailing edge so in some or
maybe
even most circumstances I think they maybe more effective.

So far I have had no reason to complain.

Robert Mudd


Yup, and that 20 meter wing gets a lot heavier when I put 75 gallons of
water in it.
(H2O - the go-fast juice).

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels

Never mind mate, I got it, and had a laugh..

Brett.

"QDurham" wrote in message
...
The solution is to
hold off on full flaps until you are on short final.


always a good idea

Of course if you are really good, and are flying a real airplane, to hell
with
the flaps. Slip it in. Can always "unslip," you know, but "unflapping" is
looking for trouble.

Quent

I can recall spending many a late night out there re-rigging the control
surfaces on the Prowler (Navy EA-6B) when I worked in Quality Assurance. The
Airframes guys would make an adjustment and we'd have to witness the
'throws' to ensure all was within specs. That dam Hydraulic Genny was
screaming and the hydraulics were whining- It's no wonder I lost most of my
hearing.

All that 'so we could 'make the flight schedule'. Now it's somebody else's
turn to 'wrench on those jets'.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'Retired'
20 years if gettin 'em off the pointy end
AND safely home again!

You QA guys get that "partial ejection" incident in an A-6 figgered out? :-))
Warren,

Warren,

Here is the complete story:
http://www.gallagher.com/ejection_seat/

My person recollection of the story was a bit fuzzy.

Wayne
(A-6 Bombardier that has logged more takeoffs then landings.)

"Whunicut" wrote in message
...
I can recall spending many a late night out there re-rigging the control
surfaces on the Prowler (Navy EA-6B) when I worked in Quality Assurance.
The
Airframes guys would make an adjustment and we'd have to witness the
'throws' to ensure all was within specs. That dam Hydraulic Genny was
screaming and the hydraulics were whining- It's no wonder I lost most of
my
hearing.

All that 'so we could 'make the flight schedule'. Now it's somebody
else's
turn to 'wrench on those jets'.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'Retired'
20 years if gettin 'em off the pointy end
AND safely home again!

You QA guys get that "partial ejection" incident in an A-6 figgered out?
:-))
Warren,

"Lou Parker" wrote in message
om...
I just don't get it. Can anyone successfully explain how flaperons
work? Are they better or worse than seperate flaps? What are the pro's
and con's? It seems to me if one fails you have no recovery.
Lou

I'll try ;-)

Flaperons are control surfaces that look like full span ailerons. They work
both as ailerons (i.e. move in opposite directions when the stick is moved)
and as flaps (i.e. move in the same direction when the flap handle is
moved).
There is a mechanical "mixer" device connected to the stick and flap handle
that transmits the movement to the control surfaces so that they move as
described above.

The advantage, in theory, is that you can have effective, full span ailerons
at the same time with effective full span flaps that can bring the stall
speed down. To get the same effect with conventional control surfaces, the
flaps need to be of more exotic design such as the split or Fowler type
flaps.

The main disadvantage is that when the flaps are in use you get an increased
adverse yaw moment, which may make steering more difficult during approach.
Also, as the flap deflection angle is limited compared to conventional
flaps, the drag increase (speedbrake effect) is smaller. This means the
airplane floats longer in ground effect on landing, making short field
landings more difficult.

A pilot friend had a Rans S-10 Sakota with flaperons. He told me he rarely
used the flap function, preferring to sideslip on approach.

The French DynAero MCR-01 high performance plane (Ban-Bi in the US) was
originally designed (in the microlight/UL version) with double slotted
flaperons to comply with the stall speed requirement of 35 knots (65 km/h)
even with a very small wing area. After a few years, they were able to tweak
the wing design to fulfil the stall speed requirement also with a
conventional arrangement with ailerons and double slotted flaps, and this is
the current configuration.

A number of airplanes (gliders in particular) have ailerons which are
connected with the flaps and move with them. In these planes, the main idea
is to be able to reduce drag with negative deflection of the ailerons
together with the flaps. But I'd hesitate to call them flaperons in this
case, where the wing also has separate flaps.

Please correct me if I got something wrong, my practical exeprience of
flaperons is limited to radio controlled model airplanes ;-)
// N

Here is the complete story:
http://www.gallagher.com/ejection_seat/

My person recollection of the story was a bit fuzzy.


Now that had to be one more wild ride! I would have thought he was dead too but
everything broke just right for him. Kudos for the great job by the pilot!
Thanks Wayne.
Warren

The Mosquito (glider) has an unusual arrangement, not flaperons, but quite
related.
The ailerons and flaps move together when commanded by one lever. That's
quite common on 15meter ships. The ailerons move independently of the flaps
for aileron control. When you pull a different lever, for airbrake, the
flaps deflect
downward and a spoiler comes up (the spoiler is hinged at it's trailing edge
and
actually pushes the flap down) but the ailerons do not move. Then you can
move
the ailerons up and down in unison with the lever that I first mentioned
while at
the same time can be moved like normal ailerons. The ailerons have
differential
as well, more up than down. It is quite a system. The drag range is very
large.
The stall speed is hardly changed at all between flaps up and down.
Typically
I will takeoff with the flaps and ailerons full up. It makes a distinct
difference in
roll authority. After landing the first order of business is to get the
ailerons up
for this better aileron authority. By modulating the flaps/speed brake you
can
control your landing roll considerably (on hard surface). I must note - just
because the stall speed doesn't change much with speed brakes it doesn't
mean that the lift isn't changed much. The way we do stalls is not measuring
your descent rate, it is measuring the speed at which you lose the ability
to
control the aircraft.


Nils Rostedt wrote in message ...
"Lou Parker" wrote in message
. com...
I just don't get it. Can anyone successfully explain how flaperons
work? Are they better or worse than seperate flaps? What are the pro's
and con's? It seems to me if one fails you have no recovery.
Lou

I'll try ;-)

Flaperons are control surfaces that look like full span ailerons. They work
both as ailerons (i.e. move in opposite directions when the stick is moved)
and as flaps (i.e. move in the same direction when the flap handle is
moved).
There is a mechanical "mixer" device connected to the stick and flap handle
that transmits the movement to the control surfaces so that they move as
described above.

The advantage, in theory, is that you can have effective, full span
ailerons
at the same time with effective full span flaps that can bring the stall
speed down. To get the same effect with conventional control surfaces, the
flaps need to be of more exotic design such as the split or Fowler type
flaps.

The main disadvantage is that when the flaps are in use you get an
increased
adverse yaw moment, which may make steering more difficult during approach.
Also, as the flap deflection angle is limited compared to conventional
flaps, the drag increase (speedbrake effect) is smaller. This means the
airplane floats longer in ground effect on landing, making short field
landings more difficult.

A pilot friend had a Rans S-10 Sakota with flaperons. He told me he rarely
used the flap function, preferring to sideslip on approach.

The French DynAero MCR-01 high performance plane (Ban-Bi in the US) was
originally designed (in the microlight/UL version) with double slotted
flaperons to comply with the stall speed requirement of 35 knots (65 km/h)
even with a very small wing area. After a few years, they were able to
tweak
the wing design to fulfil the stall speed requirement also with a
conventional arrangement with ailerons and double slotted flaps, and this
is
the current configuration.

A number of airplanes (gliders in particular) have ailerons which are
connected with the flaps and move with them. In these planes, the main idea
is to be able to reduce drag with negative deflection of the ailerons
together with the flaps. But I'd hesitate to call them flaperons in this
case, where the wing also has separate flaps.

Please correct me if I got something wrong, my practical exeprience of
flaperons is limited to radio controlled model airplanes ;-)
// N

"Whunicut" wrote in message
...
I can recall spending many a late night out there re-rigging the control
surfaces on the Prowler (Navy EA-6B) when I worked in Quality Assurance.
The
Airframes guys would make an adjustment and we'd have to witness the
'throws' to ensure all was within specs. That dam Hydraulic Genny was
screaming and the hydraulics were whining- It's no wonder I lost most of
my
hearing.

All that 'so we could 'make the flight schedule'. Now it's somebody
else's
turn to 'wrench on those jets'.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'Retired'
20 years if gettin 'em off the pointy end
AND safely home again!

You QA guys get that "partial ejection" incident in an A-6 figgered out?
:-))
Warren,

I don't recall that particular one, but the Safety Stand-Downs we attended
ALWAYS had some real "what were they thinking" stories that always had a
'messy ending'. Sometime it was a movie, sometime just still photos (of the
aftermath), and sometimes just a long message (even a very 'dry' story in
message format can paint an accurate picture).

I recall one similar to what you've described Warren, where somebody (some
stupid maintenance guy) ejected into the hangar overhead.

A lot of my co-workers used to just climb in and out without checking the
pins- I ALWAYS checked the seat pins. I respect the power of those rocket
motors and did not want to see first-hand what they can do.

Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'Retired'
20 years if gettin 'em off the pointy end
AND safely home again!

A number of airplanes (gliders in particular) have ailerons which are
connected with the flaps and move with them. In these planes, the main idea
is to be able to reduce drag with negative deflection of the ailerons
together with the flaps. But I'd hesitate to call them flaperons in this
case, where the wing also has separate flaps.

Gliders with connected but separate flaps and ailerons are commonly referred to
as having interconnected flaps and ailerons. This is a very common system on
gliders that have flaps, not all do.

In the negative flap position the entire trailing edge is at a negative
setting. This reduces drag and increases performance. When applying positive
flap the ailerons also drop with the flap so that the entire trailing edge is
at a positive flap setting. The ailerons still work as ailerons separately from
the flap on some gliders.

On a glider such as the ASW-20 you have to see the interconnect system to
believe it. As the flaps go to positive positions so do the ailerons then as
the flap is put further down to the landing position the ailerons go back up to
a neutral or almost neutral setting thus reducing the angle of attack at the
tips and allowing for better lateral control during the landing roll. When the
control stick is moved laterally, for roll, the flaps and ailerons deflect
together but at different rates. Truly an amazing system and I always think of
it whenever someone mentions how "simple" gliders are.

Robert Mudd

"Robertmudd1u" wrote

On a glider such as the ASW-20 you have to see the interconnect system to
believe it. As the flaps go to positive positions so do the ailerons then
as
the flap is put further down to the landing position the ailerons go back
up to
a neutral or almost neutral setting thus reducing the angle of attack at
the
tips and allowing for better lateral control during the landing roll. When
the
control stick is moved laterally, for roll, the flaps and ailerons deflect
together but at different rates. Truly an amazing system and I always
think of
it whenever someone mentions how "simple" gliders are.

Speaking of gliders, I wonder if any gliders have an arrangement whereby
both ailerons can be moved in unison to a really high negative (up) angle,
in effect acting as spoilers or speedbrakes. This was available on a
Multplex radio control system I had in the late eighties, using electronic
mixing (aileron control was of course still available) . I think it was
called "scarecrow mode" or something similar. The advantage would be that
separate speedbrakes are not needed. But in a full scale glider it might be
hard on the hinges and cause too big wingtip twist?

// N