Night Flying

"Fred Choate" wrote in message
...
Right.....

I realize why a lot of VFR pilots don't fly at night. But, considering
the route....obviously it would be safer to fly some routes than others.

I mentioned that to a Horizon pilot once....the "not being able to see
anything" deal. He brought up the argument that over urban areas, you
actually can see quite a bit. You can see the cities, the freeways,
runways from distances, things like that. Now, that is in a populated
area, for instance out here in the Pacific Northwest. But say in Montana,
once you leave the vicinity of your airport, you are in the dark for sure,
and runways are few and far between.

But what about flying areas that are a bit more congested where you don't
have mountains to run into, and lots of airports around. I can't say that
I wouldn't consider it when planning a cross country........but it would
certainly depend on the route, terrain, and things like that. From the
Seattle area here, one could fly the I-5 corridor to Portland, and have an
out (the freeway) in case of an engine failure, but also many lighted
strips along the way, as well as many cities for landmarks......

Fred,

As a strictly fair-weather (VFR only!) pilot flying a very modest airplane,
I simply have a separate set of personal minimums for night flying. They're
different from my rules for day flying.

* No flights over areas with little or no lights on the ground
* No flights over the mountains
* No flights over water
* No flights over wilderness
* No flights if there's ANY clouds or significant potential for clouds along
or near my route
* No flights if there's a small (or narrowing) temp/dew point spread
* No flights without full tanks (I rarely fly down much beyond 1/3 tanks in
the day time - at night I will not go below 1/2)

That does indeed limit me quite a bit. That's fine with me.

In fact, I pretty much limit myself to the I-5 corridor. I've done flights
along this corridor from Bellingham to Portland, and feel comfortable doing
so - as long as it's completely clear out and looks like it's definitely
going to stay that way. From a practical standpoint, almost all my night
flying has been coming home along this route. So if I have a long day
flying over the Cascades to central Washington and know I might not make it
home before dark, I will plan things to make sure that by the time it gets
dark, I'm within sight of I-5, and will follow it home. Usually I end up
landing at Kelso or Chehalis for fuel as darkness falls, and come home in
full darkness for the last hour. I see plenty of places where I couild land
in a pinch along that route.

I agree, on a clear night, as long as my criteria are met, flying at night
is beautiful and serene. If my criteria can't be met, I won't do it. I've
talked with guys that don't think twice about routinely charging off over
the mountains in a little plane just like mine, but I won't do it.

Hope that helps.

David Herman
N6170T 1965 Cessna 150E
Boeing Field (BFI), Seattle, WA
http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.com

Fred Choate wrote:

But, for performance issues, and other things, I wonder how many
pilots have considered flying a cross county at night vs. during the day.

I've never opted for night versus day for performance reasons, but I've made
quite a few cross-country night flights in light singles for other reasons.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Fred Choate wrote:
I guess my previous post was silly....of course you purposely plan them for
night, but what I am getting at, is do you compare the route to a daytime
flight and do you decide to fly at night for any particular reason...


Yeah, to get somewhere after working all day, I'd fly at night. Since I do
radio navigation primarily, I don't really care if it's day or night. I've even
flown over water extensively at night in a single. The airplane doesn't know
what it's flying over.

There is a certain amount of truth to the old advice of what to do if you lose
an engine at night: set up best glide, then when you think you're getting close
to the surface, turn on your landing light. If you like what you see, go ahead
and land. If you don't like what you see, turn off the light.

As for fuel, if you're worried about it, you don't have enough.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

I live on the Texas Gulf Coast (No mountains, towers top out around 2500
MSL max)

My overriding "concern" is ground fog formation in the early AM. My
specialty "issue" is to monitor dew point spreads and visibilities
enroute, to make sure I dont box myself into a corner. I listen to every
ATIS/ASOS I pass over enroute, and actively flight follow. I'm always
talking to somebody, and I always know where I am, usually by a minimum
of two methods, sometimes 3.. (visual, VOR's, GPS)

Other than that, I have no overriding "concern" about flying at night.
My ex-wife characterized me as a flashlight collector, and I used to fly
with no less than 4 of various types, AND a chem-stic or two. Never had
the need to use one except to look at charts. I keep a battery op GPS
and Handheld in the aircraft as well.. I dont land with less than an
hour of fuel at night.. and in my typical flight, that does not affect
my utility at all. I will fully fuel (4-5 hours fuel) for a 2 hour flight.

I am VERY selective about the aircraft I fly at night. Yes, I rent, but
every aircraft I fly at night I have flown in the daytime, and I have
"fired" an aircraft on more than one occasion for poor upkeep. Crappy
radios, recurrent squawks that "cant be duplicated" involving
instruments, radios or electrics are deal breakers.

The aircraft I fly at night are well equipped for IFR, even though I am
not instrument rated. That being said, many night departures in VMC are
still only safely done on gauges (the "black hole" effect) until you
have a horizon. I have over 20 hours of legal ACTUAL IFR in the enroute
and approach setting (i was blessed with a good instructor who knew how
to teach instruments, and had become comfortable with my simulated
performance). The aircraft I fly are maintained by people I know on a
first name basis, and who are owned by people I know on a first name
basis, and are in a flying club or rental fleet that is serious about
maintenance.

The majority of aircraft accidents are the result of pilot error.. so
the greatest "problem" in flying (day or night) is the pilot. Mechanical
failure is a distant second, and by being picky/choosy and actively
managing risk I push that probability even lower. I dont use my
instrument experience to push things, rather I use it as an ace in the hole.

Now, if you want to launch into night VFR with a tight dew point spread,
nearby terrain, in a poorly maintained, poorly equipped rental with
minimum fuel, you are rolling the dice. I gamble in the casinos.. you
may get away with something in the short term, but in the long run the
house always win.

I fly at night because I may have worked that day... or not had access
to the plane until the night, or I need to get somewhere (I dont
consider a solid VFR night flight a case of get-there-itis). I trained
at night, and for the longest time I worked at night, and would go fly
on my nights off. Once or twice had to wait for daylight to get back
home (fog), but that in itself was a learning experience.

I didnt get a pilots license to go fly only on clear sunday afternoons,
I got it to go places and do things. I'm not cavalier.. rather.. its
about educated decision making and active risk management. Each of us
flying is doing something risky. Hopefully each of us is doing it as
safely as possible for the circumstances involved.

Dave

Fred Choate wrote:

I guess my previous post was silly....of course you purposely plan them for
night, but what I am getting at, is do you compare the route to a daytime
flight and do you decide to fly at night for any particular reason...


Fred

Fred, runway and run-in lights near the threshold just aren't bright
enough to interfere with night vision. You'd also think changing focal
distance from 30 inches to the instruments to fractional miles might be
a problem, but I hadn't noticed it being an issue. What you will find
interesting is flying an ILS to minimums in a cross wind. As you get
close to your decision height and start including the windscreen in
your instrument scan -- I'm sure you'll be looking straight ahead --
you'll be surprised to see the runway lights way over to the side. It's
not a big deal, but after a while you'll find yourself noticing you're
10 or 15 degrees off the runway heading as you get lower, and you'll
start looking off to the correct side to see the threshold lights.

Fred Choate wrote:

Hey Folks....

I go outside after dark a lot, usually to enjoy the outside air. Last night
I realized that I don't generally see a lot of GA at night in my area. I am
curious as to the feeling of this group on flying at night. I am talking
about VFR.

For discussion purposes, I know that when I take a trip in my car, I enjoy
driving at night. It is cooler, there is less traffic, the car seems to
perform better...etc. I would say that many of those same things would
apply to flying at night. Now, I realize the safety issues, and that isn't
the point of my question (for all of you that are going to say DON"T FLY AT
NIGHT). But, for performance issues, and other things, I wonder how many
pilots have considered flying a cross county at night vs. during the day.

Fred



I've flown several at night, both VFR and IFR. I love it. The only
downside is the occasional thought of engine failure. I tend to fly
higher at night and try to keep track of where the nearest airport is.


Matt

Fred Choate wrote:

That sounds pretty cool.....I will be going for instrument rating later this
year, or early next year. I am looking forward to it.
As for breaking out and seeing the runway lights.....does that ever give you
a sight problem? Going from instruments to those bright lights all of a
sudden?

It can if you are in a large crab angle or don't have the wings level at
break-out, however, if you try to think about this beforehand and
picture where the runway will be when you break out, it seldom is a problem.


Matt

buttman wrote:

When its dark, you can't see anything. One of the things that attracts
people to flying is being able to see things from high above.

You've obviously never flown over a snow-covered landscape with a full moon
above.

Regarding a full moon, one of my most memorable night-time flights involved
flying an Angel Flight mission from Philadelphia (Wings Field) to Boston
(Bedford).

We were over central Long Island when we spotted a lone thunderstorm cell
about 75 miles off, somewhere near Providence, Rhode Island. Lightening,
moving up and down the cell, lit it up beautifully. As if this weren't
enough, the full moon appeared and slowly rose above the cell. Surreal.

My camera was safely on my desk at home.

--
Peter


















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But, for performance issues, and other things, I wonder how many
pilots have considered flying a cross county at night vs. during the day.

I have not flown a night cross country in nine years. (My last one was
a complete success, but probably the dumbest thing I've ever done in an
airplane.)

Mary and I decided, for all of the reasons already discussed in this
thread, to not fly at night unless absolutely necessary until our kids
are grown. As a result, we have only flown a tiny hand-full of hours
at night in recent years.

Night flying is pretty, and -- if the weather cooperates -- smooth as
glass. However, if your engine craps (which single engine planes are
occasionally prone to do) you're toast.

Given all the other risks we take in our lives, we figured that this
was a pretty easy one to eliminate.

Once the kids are on their own, however, I won't have any compunctions
about flying in the dark again.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Night flying is pretty, and -- if the weather cooperates -- smooth as
glass. However, if your engine craps (which single engine planes are
occasionally prone to do) you're toast.


Not necessarily. I can think of several night crashes in rural eastern North
Carolina where the pilot walked away. Unlike my part of the state, there are a
lot of huge open fields in that area. Combined with some moonlight, I'd say you
have a pretty good shot at making it. In my part of the state, you're not
likely to be so lucky.

That being said, I thought of one cross country trip I used to make frequently,
and always at night by design: between Charlotte, NC and Lake City, FL.
Although getting a cab in Lake City after hours was always a PITA, arriving late
meant you got to arrive. If I waited until the early AM, ground fog ruined any
chance at all of getting in. And it's foggy there A LOT!




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE