Opinions on AOPA legal services ?

wrote:

And, for what it's worth, even though I'm a plan attorney, I'm also a
member. Just in case *I* need a good lawyer.

How's the saying go? "He who serves as his own attorney has a fool for a client."

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Hey George,

Remember the Adams Family movie where the father announces that the
attorney who represents himself has a fool for a client and then goes
on to say, paraphrased: "As God is my witness, I am that fool!"?

One of the great lines of our time.

BTW, I've mentioned your signature line regarding the Internet to a lot
of people and you've gotten a lot of laughs.

All the best,
Rick

I strongly recommend the following firm for legal advice:

http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/20031016_airport.htm

Don,

I am also an attorney on the AOPA legal services plan. My area of
practice is primarily aviation law. Under the terms of the plan I have
had to attend an AOPA legal services seminar within a certain period of
time (the file is at the office so I don't have the details in front of
me) for which I have had to pay. Even though I am actively
representing pilots and mechanics in matters brought by the FAA, the
seminar is almost always very valuable to me and I use information
provided almost immediately.

That being said, my experience is that I get a call from a pilot or
mechanic about once every two weeks or so. Each person calling is
frightened. He (almost invariably he, women are only 6% of pilots and
tend to get in trouble very rarely) has never, ever been in trouble
with the FAA before and has slipped up in some fashion or there has
been a communication problem that has caught the pilot on the short end
of the stick and the FAA is either inquiring into the situation or
actively taking action against the pilot.

The other calls are from pilots who have bought an airplane and didn't
bother to pay for a prebuy inspection and have discovered that they
bought themselves an absolute piece of junk, sight unseen, for a very
low price, from someone a long ways away. And they are ****ed.

Under the terms of the agreement I have signed with the AOPA, I am to
give a certain amount of free consultation to members of the legal
services plan. I don't recall how much time it is, and I don't care,
I'll generally go to an hour in that first phone call, I want to do
what I can for a fellow pilot. About one in five of the callers lie to
me and tell me they are members of the plan. I know I should call and
check on them before I continue the call, but I never do. I check
after the call. Okay, I'm a sucker, but usually the guy is big time
scared and I'm going to do what I can to help him. Besides, the hourly
rate that I get paid through the plan is well below what my firm
insists that I normally charge, so I'm not making much money on the
deal. When I was learning to fly a heck of a lot of guys helped me out
and gave me guidance, so I figure I'm paying them back in some fashion
by helping out pilots now.

If I wind up representing the pilot, I have signed an agreement that
sets the maximum hourly fee I can charge to pilots on the legal
services plan. For pilots not on the plan, I have to charge the fee my
firm sets, which is substantially higher. The thing I've discovered
over the years is that the weak spot in a pilot's defense, especially
where he is clearly not guilty, is the money available to pay for the
defense. (Yes, attorneys do sometimes work for free, but they have to
eat, and the free work is usally for the poor, and unless the pilot is
a young flight instructor, few fit into that category g.)

What I've found is that most of the time, the FAA doesn't bring an
action unless it's got a good case, so it's a challenge defending the
pilot. However, I've also found that the FAA goes for a lot more
penalty than is appropriate, and because the AOPA legal plan pays, I
have the time to work with the pilot to get to the heart of the matter
and find out the circumstances in detail, because there are often more
defenses than are apparent on first examination. Plus, about a third
of the actions are purely political, a professional pilot has gotten on
the wrong side of an FAA inspector and the inspector is just looking
for an excuse to hammer the pilot. (On top of all of that, many pilots
don't call me until after they have spoken to the FAA and have managed
to admit everything, thus taking away any defenses they might well have
honestly had - if the call me early the chances of a successful defense
are far higher and if they know they have money for representation,
they are more likely to call me early, when they first get a call from
the FAA.) So, with some money available to the pilot, I've got the
time to get background information that lets me talk to the FAA
attorney and point out the weak spots in his or her case. Sometimes it
works, sometimes it doesn't. But, the FAA now knows that they are not
going to have walkovers all the time because more and more pilots have
paid the pittance charged by the legal services plan and there will be
an attorney involved who knows the system and is going to keep the FAA
attorney honest. I may not be able to get a violation tossed out
(although that happens about 1 time in 20), but I know I'm going to be
able to get the sanction reduced.

Is it worth it? In my humble opinion, the cost is so very little and
the political environment is so biased against pilots that it's foolish
not to pay that very small cost for what amounts to insurance.

No, I'm not being paid by the AOPA for my comments.

So, as one tightwad pilot to anther: get the damn crowbar out, pry
open your wallet, and pay the fee for the legal services plan. If
nothing else, it's like chicken soup, it can't hurt.

All the best,
Rick

wrote:

snip
So, as one tightwad pilot to anther: get the damn crowbar out, pry
open your wallet, and pay the fee for the legal services plan. If
nothing else, it's like chicken soup, it can't hurt.

Although I am already am a member of AOPA's legal service, I still enjoyed
reading your post. Thanks for taking the time to type it up and sharing a
small slice of life on the legal side of aviation in the US.

--
Peter
























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wrote:

So, as one tightwad pilot to anther: get the damn crowbar out, pry
open your wallet, and pay the fee for the legal services plan.

I'm a charter member. And thanks for the email advice you've given me in the past.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Many lawyers give a little time to someone with a question without
charge. Those who are a part of the AOPA legal services plan are to be
commended for providing their specialized expertise to we who enjoy
flying. I am a lawyer, too, but do not feel that I have the expertise
to be a provider in the AOPA plan, although I let it be known to our
recetionist that I would like to take the initial call rom a pilot or
aircraft owner, because I can usually at least get them headed in the
right direction or to an aviation specialist.
Many in the rec.aviation newsgroups love to bash lawyers, usually
without any facts or even any experience actually dealing with one.
Many are some of the most prolific posters. We all know who they are.
Too bad they can't say anything good about the good deeds that we in
the legal profession provide.
Have you kissed your lawyer today?

" wrote:

Too bad they can't say anything good about the good deeds that we in
the legal profession provide.

A good lawyer is one who is on your side. A bad lawyer is one who is on the
other side. ;-)



--
Peter
























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Peter R. wrote:
A good lawyer is one who is on your side. A bad lawyer is one who is on the
other side. ;-)


Ain't that the truth? I was sued a few years ago in a non-aviation matter. I
followed my lawyer's advice to the "T". My deposition took 55 minutes; the
plaintive's a little over 11 hours. In the end, we didn't pay them dick.
Obviously my lawyer was a genius. Their's would have made more money on that
case had he flipped burgers for McDonald's instead. That's what he got for
taking such a moronic case.

Do I have warm and fuzzy feelings for the guy who fought for me? Of course. G

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:08:54 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote in
::

Peter R. wrote:
A good lawyer is one who is on your side. A bad lawyer is one who is on the
other side. ;-)


Ain't that the truth?

Well, it's half the truth.

It's also important that your lawyer is prepared, knows the law,
understands the mechanics of the court, is willing to take your side
in the matter regardless of how the judge feels about the case, and
most importantly, has sufficient fire in his belly to argue
persuasively. Often attorneys are reluctant to move for dismissal on
technical grounds if it makes the court (or the other attorney) look
incompetent, for they may have to present subsequent cases before them
in the future. You'd be amazed at how much law must be digested
before a winning strategy can be chosen. That requires an experienced
and knowledgeable attorney, as well as copious research (for which you
may be unwilling to pay).

That's why it's important for the client to do as much as possible to
assist the attorney. There's little preventing the client from
visiting the local law library, and reading revenant texts. The
client can also provide his attorney with photographic evidence,
contact expert witnesses, and do other investigative work. In the
case of FAA related matters, the client can make Freedom Of
Information Act (FOIA) requests, and contact regional, district and
local personnel for their contributions, and more.

The client who sits on his hands, and expects his attorney to do it
all, either has very deep pockets or at a substantial disadvantage,
IMO.