Hurricane relief

"cjcampbell"

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

moo

Happy Dog wrote:
"cjcampbell"

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

moo

You are ignorant of a couple of things:

1) Self reliant people don't have to agree with me in order to be
wrong.
2) You do not have a clue what a straw man argument is.

"cjcampbell" wrote in message
oups.com...

Happy Dog wrote:
"cjcampbell"

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

moo

You are ignorant of a couple of things:

Look in a mirror.


1) Self reliant people don't have to agree with me in order to be
wrong.
2) You do not have a clue what a straw man argument is.


It's that piece you just created "Although it may be somewhat of an
improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards me."

Tom

"cjcampbell" wrote in message

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

moo

You are ignorant of a couple of things:

1) Self reliant people don't have to agree with me in order to be
wrong.

It isn't a right or wrong issue. You are mischaracterizing the position of
people who advocate self-reliance.

2) You do not have a clue what a straw man argument is.

Idiot. You have constructed a caricature of the "culture of self-reliance"
by defining it a hermit lifestyle. That is a textbook strawman argument.

moo

Gary,
How do you justify those adamantly remaining in NO?
Many are not poor, they are home owners.
Some are not old, some have young children.
Are they not endangering their children by refusing to leave when
offered transportation?
How are they going to provide for their families now that the
authorities are cutting off food, water and medical services?
One report this morning told of buses being driven into the poor
neighborhoods Friday and Saturday and the residents refusing to leave.
Reportedly, they signed waivers to that effect.
Your arguement of the lack of transportation is fading away.

Happy Dog wrote:
"cjcampbell" wrote in message
:

1) Self reliant people don't have to agree with me in order to be
wrong.

It isn't a right or wrong issue. You are mischaracterizing the position of
people who advocate self-reliance.

2) You do not have a clue what a straw man argument is.

Idiot. You have constructed a caricature of the "culture of self-reliance"
by defining it a hermit lifestyle. That is a textbook strawman argument.

I am not your enemy, you know. I am sorry if you think I created a
caricature of self-reliance. If it will make you feel better, let me
offer "Invictus" by William Ernest Henley:

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

--------

I love this poem. Ella Wheeler Wilcox put it this way:

There is no chance, no destiny, no fate,
Can circumvent or hinder or control
The firm resolve of a determined soul.

--------

Will you accept these as anthems, if not definitions, of the self
sufficient soul?

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"cjcampbell"

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

Neither would psychologists or other "self-help" types. He's engaging in a
logical fallacy of "false-alternative".

Tom S.

"Doof" wrote in message
...

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"cjcampbell"

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

Neither would psychologists or other "self-help" types. He's engaging in a
logical fallacy of "false-alternative".

Strawman, actually. His statement is a caricature of self-reliance
advocates. Did you mean "false dilemma", BTW?

moo

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"Doof" wrote in message
...

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"cjcampbell"

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

Neither would psychologists or other "self-help" types. He's engaging in
a logical fallacy of "false-alternative".

Strawman, actually.

Both actually.

His statement is a caricature of self-reliance advocates.

He also alludes that one is either dependant or narcistic (?).

Did you mean "false dilemma", BTW?

Yup (most people don't know what FD means, but do understand a false
alternative.)

Doof wrote:
"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
"cjcampbell"

Too many people try to fight the culture of dependency with a culture
of self-reliance. Although it may be somewhat of an improvement, the
culture of self-reliance says "I am responsible for myself. I have no
obligation to anyone else, nor does anyone have any obligation towards
me."

Really? I doubt you'll find many self-reliant people who would agree.
That's a strawman central to the rest of your argument.

Neither would psychologists or other "self-help" types. He's engaging in a
logical fallacy of "false-alternative".

Tom S.

If I have mistated my case, show me the rugged individualists posting
here who have suggested lifting even one finger to help out the
hurricane victims. To the contrary, they began by complaining the
misuse of "their" money and resources for this task, and have suggested
it would just be better to let them die.