Helicopter Question

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:15:30 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::


Since a pilot can get a Special VFR clearance pretty much anywhere that
there *isn't* Class G airspace near the surface (generally below 700 or 1200
feet, depending), this means that as long as the helicopter pilot can see
well enough to avoid obstacles, the visibility is defined as being
sufficient, no matter how low it actually is.

It was my understanding, that a Special VFR clearance was only issued
within the controlled airspace of the surface area of an airport:


§ 91.157 Special VFR weather minimums.

(a) Except as provided in appendix D, section 3, of this part,
special VFR operations may be conducted under the weather minimums
and requirements of this section, instead of those contained in
§91.155, below 10,000 feet MSL within the airspace contained by
the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled
airspace designated to the surface for an airport.

That doesn't seem to be what you are saying above. Did I miss
something?

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
[...]
That doesn't seem to be what you are saying above. Did I miss
something?

I don't know what you missed. But the text you quoted doesn't contradict
anything I wrote.

If you are near the surface (less than 700', for example) and you are not in
Class G, it is practically certain that you are "within the airspace
contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the
controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport".

If you were not in such protected airspace, you'd be in the Class G
underlying the Class E (assuming there's any Class E in the neighborhood at
all). In Class G airpace, the Special VFR clearance isn't required; the
helicopter enjoys the lack of a minimum visibility requirement without one
there.

Pete

Ice on helicopters is a problem and they need to be deiced.
The issues are different in detail but not in principle.
The rotor flexes a lot and that can shed ice on some areas,
but rotors have nodes that don't flex. Also inlets,
instruments and such can all ice. Most helicopters are not
certified for icing conditions. Those used by the North Sea
oil companies and the military transports usually are. Each
copter is different.

I had a friend who flew Santa from one town to another for
the mall, they got into ice in a Jet Ranger and made a dozen
stops in fields along the 30 mile route, to stop and knock
the iced off. It probably was not a legal flight, but I
wasn't the pilot or on the bird.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:a5qjf.582408$x96.381721@attbi_s72...
| As we were flying over to Newton, IA today, we started
discussing icing and
| snow -- something that we must constantly worry about in
these parts for at
| least the next 4 months.
|
| As we were talking, we heard a "Flight for Life" 'copter
on Unicom, which
| got us to wondering how it is that these guys seem to fly
in ANY weather.
|
| Which got us to wondering further: How do helicopters
handle ice? Are the
| main rotor blades heated? Does the centrifugal force on
those huge blades
| prevent ice build up? What about the rest of the
fuselage? How do they
| de-ice themselves?
|
| Thanks!
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|
|

Don't know about ice on rotors, but experienced engine out due to carb
icing once.

Helicopters face the same challenges of other aircraft. However, there
are some differences. The rotor blades are very flexible ... more than
one would think. This serves to remove the formation of large amounts
of ice. Small films are probably able to form, but large heavy films
probably do not in most circumstances. Additonally, helicoptors are
fairly well insulated capsules with large engines piggy-backed right
behind the cabin. This helps since these two capsules can preserve the
generated heat, pretty well. Yes, other external parts can ice up, but
the whole cabin is pretty much the helicopter. The rest, is a lot of
smaller surface area. Personally, I think the tail section and rear
rotor would be the trouble area under such circumstances.
Flyingmonk wrote:
Don't know about ice on rotors, but experienced engine out due to carb
icing once.

Just fly very, very low. I had a friend who flew Huey's. He said if the
detected ANY ice, they would land in whatever field they could. They
once camped out for 1/2 day. At CAP we were sent to look for a National
Guard Helo about a month ago. Turns out it landed in a field to wait
out icing weather and just couldn't get to a phone.

-Robert

Jay
Helicopters don't handle ice very well at all. Think of how it affects
the wings of airplanes? The rotor blades are the wings for a helicopter
and can't handle much ice at all. Long before there is enough ice to
sling off the blades, the helicopter is on its way to the ground either
under control, or out of control! The helicopters are much more
sensitive to weight than most airplanes, and the addition of weight in
the form of ice is real bad news for rotorcraft aside from blade ice.
For reference, I've got about 9000 hrs in rotor and another 13-14000 in
FW and more than 1500 actual IFR. I've experienced lots of icing
conditions in airplanes and if there is any ice forecast on my route of
flight in a helicopter...I simply don't go.
I've been forced to the ground in FW a couple times with clear ice and
shudder to think of what those same conditions would have done to me in
helicopters.
As for the EMS people, while I applaud their go get'em attitude, they
too must make an executive decision when icing conditions are present.
The simple aerodynamic rules could care less about ability or attitude!
Ice is to be feared and respected. For more info, check on
rec.aviation.rotorcraft and post the same questions. Or, better yet, go
to Just Helicopters.com and pose the same questions there for a lot of
answers by some highly experienced rotor people. The "Original" forum
has some real wise asses that pop up, but is also frequented by the old
pros. The new forum is more serious and if you post on each, you'll see
some interesting answers. Go take a look...!
Ol Shy & Bashful

wrote

For reference, I've got about 9000 hrs in rotor

Damn, I used to respect you, before you came clean with that fact! g

Why do Heli's fly? Because they are so ugly, the ground repulses them! ;-)

But you've never heard that one before, right?
--
Jim in NC

For reference, I've got about 9000 hrs in rotor

Damn, I used to respect you, before you came clean with that fact! g

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. 9000 hours inside a frog blender?
That's *crazy*!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Have you guys ever seen the picture of the egg in the frying pan? This
is an egg.....this is an egg on drugs?
How about this is an airplane, and this is an airplane on drugs?
Geeeez guys can't you give me a break??? I said I have a few thousand
more hours that that in phyxed wings. Doesn't that get me a cup of
coffee or something?
Tell you the truth, helicopters are more fun if you are in a position
to do some low level maneuvering like in crop spraying. For long
distance I'll take the airplane being faster and you can relax a little
enroute. Not long back I ferried a turbine helicopter from near the
Canada border down to Baton Rouge, LA right after Katrina. What a long
trip that was! Had to land to refuel about every 2 hours and had to
plan carefully to make sure they had Jet A and of course they all made
me shut down during refueling. It is not uncommon for hot refueling in
many aviation operations and I've done more of that than the "cold"
refueling. Turbine equipment has a limited number of "Start Cycles" and
most operators will try to avoid them when they can. Has to do with the
spike of temperatures during the start sequence.
On the ice subject, I recall one time starting the helicopter on some
slick ice and as soon as the main rotor began to turn, the helicopter
began to turn too...slipping on the ice!! Talk about scary?
Ol Shy & Bashful