CFI practical test - aircraft required

Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 01:32:40 GMT, Bill Zaleski
wrote:

Not true.


On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 19:28:26 -0600, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

You also need an airplane available that can be legally
spun.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but I'm sure there's
some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How about go to
the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your home field for
the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry the spin capable
aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to take place in
with you then disappear for a while you get the checkride over with?
Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be fair game to ask
them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can arrange appropriate
aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?

Two aircraft may be required. The Beech F33C was acrobatic,
T34 are now subject to an AD. If the examiner knows and
respects the school and or recommending CFI, they will
usually accept the "spin endorsement" but an examiner always
has the option to require everything, that means more than
one plane is always a possibility. You note that I said
"available" in my original post. It is a good idea to know
what to expect and to have a suitable plane reserved if the
examiner wants to spin. [Some really like to spin and some
will anything to avoid it.]


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Rachel" wrote in message
. ..
| Peter Clark wrote:
| Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes
that an
| endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the
task is
| required. In the event of no endorsement (or the
examiner not
| substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be
required.
|
| If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and
landings, how would
| one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to
FSDO (if a
| FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to
spin? The one
| I did my CFI in wasn't.

But you won't know until you're practical test has begun, if
the examiner verifies the logbook entry, but find you weak
on the oral portion, they may require you to demonstrate a
real spin. Thus you need an airplane certified for spins
AVAILABLE. If that takes two planes and even two days, so
be it.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Rachel" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| You also need an airplane available that can be legally
| spun.
|
| Only if you're required to do spins on the checkride.

Show up with a Complex Aircraft and the Spin Endorsement completed..
If the Examiner REQUIRES the SPIN as part of the test.. then get a
continuance letter specifying what is complete and what is not complete and
what needs to be accomplished to complete.

It always boggles my mind.. it's the same as showing up for a Commercial
check ride in a non complex aircraft.. and swapping aircraft for a couple of
landings in complex aircraft... just do the whole check ride in complex.

BT

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but I'm sure there's
some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How about go to
the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your home field for
the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry the spin capable
aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to take place in
with you then disappear for a while you get the checkride over with?
Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be fair game to ask
them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can arrange appropriate
aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?

Jim Macklin wrote:
But you won't know until you're practical test has begun, if
the examiner verifies the logbook entry, but find you weak
on the oral portion, they may require you to demonstrate a
real spin. Thus you need an airplane certified for spins
AVAILABLE. If that takes two planes and even two days, so
be it.


Makes me glad my DE took my endorsement.

R u paying for my training in a complex for all the other required stuff ?

easy with my money pal..


"BTIZ" wrote in message
newsdkwf.8776$V.3820@fed1read04...
Show up with a Complex Aircraft and the Spin Endorsement completed..
If the Examiner REQUIRES the SPIN as part of the test.. then get a
continuance letter specifying what is complete and what is not complete
and what needs to be accomplished to complete.

It always boggles my mind.. it's the same as showing up for a Commercial
check ride in a non complex aircraft.. and swapping aircraft for a couple
of landings in complex aircraft... just do the whole check ride in
complex.

BT

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G) notes that an
endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the task is
required. In the event of no endorsement (or the examiner not
substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be required.

If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and landings, how would
one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft to FSDO (if a
FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok to spin? The one
I did my CFI in wasn't.

I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but I'm sure there's
some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How about go to
the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your home field for
the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry the spin capable
aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to take place in
with you then disappear for a while you get the checkride over with?
Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be fair game to ask
them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can arrange appropriate
aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?

Yes, DE and Feds don't want to waste your money and their
time. But you never know for sure until after the test is
over. They can even call you back for a re-test anytime
they have reason to do so.

I instructed at an FBO located within walking distance of
the FSDO. We always gave spin training and the endorsement
and on the day of a CFI test, the applicant would reserve a
Skipper and a Sierra.

I once had a former Naval aviator as a CFI student. He
needed very little training except for civil regs and
procedures, he was a great stick, I learned a lot from him.
His former jobs in the Navy included instructor in T28s and
flying the C130 to the South Pole for a couple of years. He
had two great war stories about exciting take-offs. One was
in white-out conditions using the radar to avoid the
buildings at the end of the runway and to stay aligned with
the take-off path [aim for the buildings but liftoff in time
to miss them.] The other was the one he thought was the
most interesting...picking up some scientists off a glacier.
The slope was such that they could not get up to rotation
speed, the side load on the skis because of the slope was
just too much. When the scientist described the glacier and
the valley beyond, he decide to fly off the end below stall
speed and not land there again.


"Rachel" wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| But you won't know until you're practical test has
begun, if
| the examiner verifies the logbook entry, but find you
weak
| on the oral portion, they may require you to demonstrate
a
| real spin. Thus you need an airplane certified for
spins
| AVAILABLE. If that takes two planes and even two days,
so
| be it.
|
|
| Makes me glad my DE took my endorsement.

Use a Skipper, C150/152/Tomahawk etc for most of the CFI or
commercial test and just use the complex as required is the
least expensive way to do it. But people's egos get in the
way and they want the size and power of the complex
airplane.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Capt. Mike" wrote in message
. ..
|R u paying for my training in a complex for all the other
required stuff ?
|
| easy with my money pal..
|
|
| "BTIZ" wrote in message
| newsdkwf.8776$V.3820@fed1read04...
| Show up with a Complex Aircraft and the Spin Endorsement
completed..
| If the Examiner REQUIRES the SPIN as part of the test..
then get a
| continuance letter specifying what is complete and what
is not complete
| and what needs to be accomplished to complete.
|
| It always boggles my mind.. it's the same as showing up
for a Commercial
| check ride in a non complex aircraft.. and swapping
aircraft for a couple
| of landings in complex aircraft... just do the whole
check ride in
| complex.
|
| BT
|
| "Peter Clark"
wrote in message
| ...
| On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel
wrote:
|
| Peter Clark wrote:
| Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G)
notes that an
| endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the
task is
| required. In the event of no endorsement (or the
examiner not
| substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be
required.
|
| If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and
landings, how would
| one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft
to FSDO (if a
| FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok
to spin? The one
| I did my CFI in wasn't.
|
| I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but
I'm sure there's
| some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How
about go to
| the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your
home field for
| the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry
the spin capable
| aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to
take place in
| with you then disappear for a while you get the
checkride over with?
| Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be
fair game to ask
| them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can
arrange appropriate
| aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?
|
|
|
|