Air Force One Had to Intercept Some Inadvertent Flyers / How?

"Chris Schmelzer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:11 -0500, Ronald Gardner
wrote in ::

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120
knots.

Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent F-15s from endangering the public
by exceeding the 250 knot speed limit below 10,000'.


Umm, military has never been restricted to the 250knot speed. You really
think they are 'endangering the public' when they do this? Do you think
they don't know where YOUR aircraft is long before you see them?

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD

The guy in Florida in a 172 that got hit by a military hot shot that broke
every rule in the book would agree that they are 'endangering the public'
except he is dead. To add insult to murder he was given partial blame for
not seeing and avoiding a military fighter traveling at well over 250 knots
that came up on him from behind.

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 04:34:48 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote in : :

To add insult to murder he was given partial blame for
not seeing and avoiding a military fighter traveling at well over 250 knots
that came up on him from behind.


(Minor correction: the MAC was left-left impact.)

What I find reprehensible is the USAF's attempt to use the
navigational system errors in the lead F-16 as an excuse for it's
pilot's blatant disregard for the lives he decided to endanger by
entering congested Class B and C terminal airspace without benefit of
the required ATC clearance at speeds of ~500 knots clearly in
violation of FAA regulations. The ATP rated Cessna 172 pilot was in a
hard right bank at the time of impact indicating that he was
attempting to avoid the Ninja flight's wingman, but at that speed
apparently there wasn't time enough to see-and-avoid.

It was reported that the USAF found a verbal reprimand appropriate
punishment for flight lead Parker.

In another, earlier civil/military MAC, the NTSB found the glider
pilot at fault despite his having the right of way as provided by
federal regulations.

It would seem our government is a bit biased when it comes to
evaluating itself.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
et...

"Chris Schmelzer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 21:13:11 -0500, Ronald Gardner
wrote in ::

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120
knots.

Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent F-15s from endangering the public
by exceeding the 250 knot speed limit below 10,000'.


Umm, military has never been restricted to the 250knot speed. You really
think they are 'endangering the public' when they do this? Do you think
they don't know where YOUR aircraft is long before you see them?

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD

The guy in Florida in a 172 that got hit by a military hot shot that broke
every rule in the book would agree that they are 'endangering the public'
except he is dead. To add insult to murder he was given partial blame for
not seeing and avoiding a military fighter traveling at well over 250
knots that came up on him from behind.


That was a ****ty deal in deed. I can't speak for what happened in that
case, but I know for a fact that this accident is a case study that every
new pilot must study and several new regulations were put into place after
this to prevent it from happening again.

It is definitely not the norm for how the USAF conducts daily training
missions.

"Ronald Gardner" wrote

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120
knots. I
wonder if with the thrust to weight ratio if he could nose up and power up
and
hold a much lower grd speed without altitude gain? Any former F15 pilots
out
there have the answer?

I have seen FA-18's "hang it on the prop" before; I'm sure F-15 pilots are
"almost" as good! g
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Ronald Gardner" wrote

I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120
knots. I
wonder if with the thrust to weight ratio if he could nose up and power up
and
hold a much lower grd speed without altitude gain? Any former F15 pilots
out
there have the answer?

I have seen FA-18's "hang it on the prop" before; I'm sure F-15 pilots are
"almost" as good! g

I saw a Thunderbirds (F-16) show a few years ago from a position only a
few hundred feet from the runway. Amazing. One plane came down the
runway about 25' AGL so slowly that I thought I could out run it on
foot. It must have been standing on part of the afterburner thrust or
something. The wings could not have been contributing much lift and
might even have been stalled.

And later in the show, a single F-16 did 360 degree turns at nearly
90-degree bank. The wing was barely off the surface.

"Ronald Gardner" wrote in message
...
I suspect gear and flaps down speed of a F15 to be around 110 or 120 knots.
I
wonder if with the thrust to weight ratio if he could nose up and power up
and
hold a much lower grd speed without altitude gain? Any former F15 pilots
out
there have the answer?

It depends on gross weight but it's closer to 150kts. That's landing config
though. You can get an F-15 down to below 100kts but it reqires alot more
thrust to get into slow flight and I'm not sure I'd want a single seat pilot
trying to control that and give hand signals or hold up signs, etc.