Columbia crash...opinions

"xyzzy" wrote in message
ups.com...

Kobra wrote:
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

....

What kind of player does this video use? It doesn't play in my IE and
there is no link on the page to download the player.


You probably have your security set too high, and disallow the necessary
Control.

On 2006-03-29, Kobra wrote:
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

Maybe the passenger was interfering with the rudders? He was in quite
a slip as he went over the people on the ground. You could imagine
someone turning around to look into the back seat pressing or blocking
the rudder in an effort to twist around.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

On 03/29/06 15:17, Ben Jackson wrote:
On 2006-03-29, Kobra wrote:
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

Maybe the passenger was interfering with the rudders? He was in quite
a slip as he went over the people on the ground. You could imagine
someone turning around to look into the back seat pressing or blocking
the rudder in an effort to twist around.


Hmmm, maybe. The person in the right seat was a small woman. I would think
the pilot would be able to come up with enough force to lift that woman with
his one leg.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Kobra wrote:
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

It looks like a 182, so it had *some* muscle.

I think it must have been hot, maybe a high elevation, loaded with fuel,
people and equipment. But one passenger was a small boy so he couldn't have
been very heavy.

It also looks like a soft-field technique that was poorly executed and he
lost directional control and didn't lower the nose to build airspeed first.

Very sad,

Kobra



Speed. Looks like a very short takeoff without adequate flying speed.
The pilot may have felt he was about to plow the people in front, and
tried to get it off before it was ready. He actually did get it off,
but low and out of control.

"Kobra" wrote in message
...
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

It looks like a 182, so it had *some* muscle.

I think it must have been hot, maybe a high elevation, loaded with fuel,
people and equipment. But one passenger was a small boy so he couldn't
have been very heavy.

It also looks like a soft-field technique that was poorly executed and he
lost directional control and didn't lower the nose to build airspeed
first.

Very sad,

Kobra

Looks like a loss of directional control on takeoff.

The pilot *might* have saved things by using left brake, rudder, and aileron
to avoid the pedestrians, but most of us (including myself) are not
practiced up on abrupt maneuvers at *almost* flying speed.

Once he lifted off, I think he was afraid to bank the aircraft and used
rudder to either bring the aircraft back to the runway centerline OR to make
a slight turn into the wind. That, or he completely forgot about the rudder
and P-factor put him into uncoordinated flight. He'd have done much better
keeping the airplane in coordinated flight - without the excess drag caused
by that slip, he might have reached a managable speed and flown away...
KB

Someone elsewhere suggested that the gust lock might have been in
place, as you don't see the ailerons moving. I don't know enough about
Cessnas to say if this is very likely, and I can't tell from the video
whether any aileron input is noticable.

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
oups.com...
Someone elsewhere suggested that the gust lock might have been in
place, as you don't see the ailerons moving. I don't know enough about
Cessnas to say if this is very likely, and I can't tell from the video
whether any aileron input is noticable.

Unlikely if it is OEM gust lock since it would block the key for starter and
magnetoes.

Howard

On 2006-03-30, Mike Granby wrote:
Someone elsewhere suggested that the gust lock might have been in
place, as you don't see the ailerons moving.

Unlikely. The standard Cessna gust lock locks the elevators in an almost
full nose-down position - it's improbable he'd have been able to raise
the nose at all. It just looks like a classic insufficient
airspeed/mush/stall accident.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

Yep, "Behind the power curve".

Al


"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-03-30, Mike Granby wrote:
Someone elsewhere suggested that the gust lock might have been in
place, as you don't see the ailerons moving.

Unlikely. The standard Cessna gust lock locks the elevators in an almost
full nose-down position - it's improbable he'd have been able to raise
the nose at all. It just looks like a classic insufficient
airspeed/mush/stall accident.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
On 2006-03-30, Mike Granby wrote:
Someone elsewhere suggested that the gust lock might have been in
place, as you don't see the ailerons moving.

Unlikely. The standard Cessna gust lock locks the elevators in an almost
full nose-down position - it's improbable he'd have been able to raise
the nose at all. It just looks like a classic insufficient
airspeed/mush/stall accident.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

The factory control lock puts the elevator down about 10° from horizontal,
just enough to keep the wind from flipping the tail up. But you are right,
with it in place there is no way to rotate.

I think he just panicked and pulled back on the yoke.