Grass Strips, Landing Technique, etc.

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
[...]


Yesterday I witnessed a Baron pilot land nosewheel first, porpoise a
couple of times and eventually get control. Several of us there expected
to see the nosewheel fold and the Baron slide down the runway. Talk
about poor technique!

Your accounts got me to wondering ... how many of you all have actually
seen an airplane nose-over on a grass strip? I've been flying since
1978 at two airports that had grass strips (one had only grass until
just last year). I've NEVER seen an incident on a grass strip period,
let alone one that occurred because of failure to use short-field
technique. [...]

I've seen a grass strip nose-over -- in fact, it occured at Frazier
Lake, the grass strip Orval mentioned early in his post (about the only
conveniently-located trustworthy grass strip around here in the Bay
Area). Not sure what caused it, but I saw it happen from the air, which
was quite a sobering sight, despite the fact that the plane didn't look
too damaged from 2000' up. It doesn't appear to have been put into the
NTSB database, so I guess it was considered a fairly minor incident.

Hamish

In article
,
Hamish Reid wrote:

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
[...]


Yesterday I witnessed a Baron pilot land nosewheel first, porpoise a
couple of times and eventually get control. Several of us there expected
to see the nosewheel fold and the Baron slide down the runway. Talk
about poor technique!

Your accounts got me to wondering ... how many of you all have actually
seen an airplane nose-over on a grass strip? I've been flying since
1978 at two airports that had grass strips (one had only grass until
just last year). I've NEVER seen an incident on a grass strip period,
let alone one that occurred because of failure to use short-field
technique. [...]

I've seen a grass strip nose-over -- in fact, it occured at Frazier
Lake, the grass strip Orval mentioned early in his post (about the only
conveniently-located trustworthy grass strip around here in the Bay
Area). Not sure what caused it, but I saw it happen from the air, which
was quite a sobering sight, despite the fact that the plane didn't look
too damaged from 2000' up. It doesn't appear to have been put into the
NTSB database, so I guess it was considered a fairly minor incident.

Hamish

We used to "X" out the runway during winter (rainy season) at Frazier
Lake. This did not stop some boneheads from attempting to use the sod,
however. I can remember a number of times that some nonmember left
furrows in the runway. I don't recall, however, very many noseovers,
however.

My extreme soft field experience was at Eustis, FL (X55), Mid-Florida
Airport. I think that I left some furrows there! It was WET!

In article ,
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article
,
Hamish Reid wrote:

In article ,
Matt Whiting wrote:

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
[...]


Yesterday I witnessed a Baron pilot land nosewheel first, porpoise a
couple of times and eventually get control. Several of us there
expected
to see the nosewheel fold and the Baron slide down the runway. Talk
about poor technique!

Your accounts got me to wondering ... how many of you all have actually
seen an airplane nose-over on a grass strip? I've been flying since
1978 at two airports that had grass strips (one had only grass until
just last year). I've NEVER seen an incident on a grass strip period,
let alone one that occurred because of failure to use short-field
technique. [...]

I've seen a grass strip nose-over -- in fact, it occured at Frazier
Lake, the grass strip Orval mentioned early in his post (about the only
conveniently-located trustworthy grass strip around here in the Bay
Area). Not sure what caused it, but I saw it happen from the air, which
was quite a sobering sight, despite the fact that the plane didn't look
too damaged from 2000' up. It doesn't appear to have been put into the
NTSB database, so I guess it was considered a fairly minor incident.

Hamish

We used to "X" out the runway during winter (rainy season) at Frazier
Lake. This did not stop some boneheads from attempting to use the sod,
however. I can remember a number of times that some nonmember left
furrows in the runway. I don't recall, however, very many noseovers,
however.

I always used to wonder if anyone ever landed in the seaplane "ditch"
there by mistake... under certain conditions it certainly looked like a
runway :-).

Hamish

In article
,
Hamish Reid wrote:

In article ,
Orval Fairbairn wrote:


We used to "X" out the runway during winter (rainy season) at Frazier
Lake. This did not stop some boneheads from attempting to use the sod,
however. I can remember a number of times that some nonmember left
furrows in the runway. I don't recall, however, very many noseovers,
however.

I always used to wonder if anyone ever landed in the seaplane "ditch"
there by mistake... under certain conditions it certainly looked like a
runway :-).

When I was there we had a pool going as to when somebody would try that!
On a grey day, the seaplane lane looked like a wet concrete runway --
except for the ducks that lived there!

Matt,

how many of you all have actually
seen an airplane nose-over on a grass strip?


I have. Cessna 172. Truly lousy landing. If anything, the nose wheel
would have folded sooner on pavement.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Orval Fairbairn wrote:
Your accounts got me to wondering ... how many of you all have actually
seen an airplane nose-over on a grass strip? I've been flying since 1978
at two airports that had grass strips (one had only grass until just last
year). I've NEVER seen an incident on a grass strip period, let alone one
that occurred because of failure to use short-field technique. I haven't
tried to search the NTSB archives yet. I'm sure they have some accounts,
but it certainly isn't the type of crash that I've either heard or read
about with any frequency.


Matt

I'm with you. I saw one taxi into a drainage ditch - threatened to sue, but
it was a private strip and he did not have permission to land (years ago,
nowdays it would be feasible). One overshot the field and nosed over when he
hit the cattle fence at the end. Saw another nimrod taxi into a hanger, but
that had nothing to do with the grass.

In article ,
"birdog" wrote:

I'm with you. I saw one taxi into a drainage ditch - threatened to sue, but
it was a private strip and he did not have permission to land (years ago,
nowdays it would be feasible). One overshot the field and nosed over when he
hit the cattle fence at the end. Saw another nimrod taxi into a hanger, but
that had nothing to do with the grass.

If it is on the Sectional and has an R in a circle, one had better have
permission. If it is not on the Sectional, again, you had better have
permission.

We've had several club members damage aircraft on grass. In all cases, the
damage occurred during and unexpected pavement-to-grass transition. :-(