tail ballast antifreeze

wrote:
I got this from our resident physicist and weather guru:

snip
From NHTSA on methanol in fuels:

"Methanol will attack and corrode certain metals, such as magnesium and
aluminum. Additionally, the corrosion products of aluminum and methanol
will precipitate out of the liquid fuel and clog filters and fuel
injectors. For this reason, it is recommended that metals such as
stainless steel and carbon steel be used in methanol fuel systems and
fuel delivery systems. Methanol will also attack many common
elastomeric materials, like rubber, polyurethane, and most plastics.
Elastomers with high fluorine content and Teflon have been proven to be
compatible with methanol."

... Ethanol is probably safer.
/snip

Thanks Mike!

~ted/2NO
"Jack Daniels for my V2C!"

Food graded PROPYLENE GLYCOL might be a good choice...it is less
effective then the ethylene glycol (very nasty stuff)...15% solution is
good down to 10 deg. F.I just don't know if it will react with
fiberglass....propylene glycol is used in cosmetics, food processing,
hospitals, etc. But also keep in mind that adding a kitchen salt into
fresh water will bring the freezing point down....my 2 cents....

If you have any metal parts in the piping, they won't appreciate the salt...

wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
I got this from our resident physicist and weather guru:

snip
From NHTSA on methanol in fuels:

"Methanol will attack and corrode certain metals, such as magnesium and
aluminum. Additionally, the corrosion products of aluminum and methanol
will precipitate out of the liquid fuel and clog filters and fuel
injectors. For this reason, it is recommended that metals such as
stainless steel and carbon steel be used in methanol fuel systems and
fuel delivery systems. Methanol will also attack many common
elastomeric materials, like rubber, polyurethane, and most plastics.
Elastomers with high fluorine content and Teflon have been proven to be
compatible with methanol."

... Ethanol is probably safer.
/snip

Thanks Mike!

~ted/2NO
"Jack Daniels for my V2C!"

Food graded PROPYLENE GLYCOL might be a good choice...it is less
effective then the ethylene glycol (very nasty stuff)...15% solution is
good down to 10 deg. F.I just don't know if it will react with
fiberglass....propylene glycol is used in cosmetics, food processing,
hospitals, etc. But also keep in mind that adding a kitchen salt into
fresh water will bring the freezing point down....my 2 cents....

Try windshield washer fluid

Does anyone disagree with JS's statement that I do not need tail
ballast antifreeze for flying at -5C for six or seven hours? I can't
imagine six liters of sloshing water freezing at only a few degrees
below. But I don't have practical experience in this area and I don't
want to make a really expensive mistake.

I appreciate all the feedback but I'm specifically asking about (1)
methanol, (2) ethanol and (3) none. I'm familiar with all the other
options from older posts.

Ely in 3 days -- can't wait!

~ted
V2C "2NO"

wrote:
Does anyone disagree with JS's statement that I do not need tail
ballast antifreeze for flying at -5C for six or seven hours? I can't
imagine six liters of sloshing water freezing at only a few degrees
below. But I don't have practical experience in this area and I don't
want to make a really expensive mistake.

I appreciate all the feedback but I'm specifically asking about (1)
methanol, (2) ethanol and (3) none. I'm familiar with all the other
options from older posts.

Ely in 3 days -- can't wait!

I've been flying out of Truckee, Minden, Tonopah, Ely, and Parowan for
15 summers or so, and have numerous ballasted 5+ hour flights in the 15
to 18K foot range. I have never used antifreeze, and never had the tail
ballast freeze. I have never noticed anyone else using antifreeze
during the summer at these sites...

Marc

The German manufacturers would rather have their customers release the =
tail ballast at +2=BAC. I suspect solar radiation is the reason why =
people can keep their water at lower air temperatures without =
immediately being awarded a split tailplane.
So if you have both outside temperatures below 2=BAC and no sunlight ... =
beware!

Wont the "sloshing around" restrict the ability of the water to freeze solid? More likely to get a frozen slushy effect.
I suggest vodka 20% and red cordial at 20% would be the perfect mix, wont freeze solid, you can see it on the metal bits to hose it off and it wont bother the feilds too much when dumped. Cant wait for first drinks at an outlanding party either!

Bagger








HEY! Only joking!

Francisco De Almeida wrote:
The German manufacturers would rather have their customers release the =
tail ballast at +2=BAC. I suspect solar radiation is the reason why =
people can keep their water at lower air temperatures without =
immediately being awarded a split tailplane.
So if you have both outside temperatures below 2=BAC and no sunlight ... =
beware!

I've been assuming that solar heating is the reason that the tail
ballast doesn't end up freezing during these summer flights. At a few
degrees below 0C in shadow, it should still take something more than an
hour for a few liters of water to freeze to the extent that it would
cause structural damage. Lack of lift and cold toes would cause me to
seek warmer environs long before that point...

What can happen though is that the small water content in the valve does
freeze, nad then you'll have a bloody leaking valve.

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
...
Francisco De Almeida wrote:
The German manufacturers would rather have their customers release the =
tail ballast at +2=BAC. I suspect solar radiation is the reason why =
people can keep their water at lower air temperatures without =
immediately being awarded a split tailplane.
So if you have both outside temperatures below 2=BAC and no sunlight ...
=
beware!

I've been assuming that solar heating is the reason that the tail ballast
doesn't end up freezing during these summer flights. At a few degrees
below 0C in shadow, it should still take something more than an hour for a
few liters of water to freeze to the extent that it would cause structural
damage. Lack of lift and cold toes would cause me to seek warmer environs
long before that point...

Hi,

I am not an expert on high altitude flying as I've done very little of it.
However, I do believe I would take the possibility of water freezing in the
wing and/or tail very seriously if I were flying above 10,000 feet for more
than a few minutes. The reason is that a while back I saw a photo of a
glider with the leading edge of the wing split open due to water freezing
and expanding in the wing. It was a dramatic photo taken in flight with the
leading edge open 4 inches or more over a split that was perhaps 3 feet
long. This is all from memory so I may not be remembering correctly. It
think it was a photo in Soaring magazine.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

"Bert Willing" wrote in message
...
What can happen though is that the small water content in the valve does
freeze, nad then you'll have a bloody leaking valve.

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
...
Francisco De Almeida wrote:
The German manufacturers would rather have their customers release the =
tail ballast at +2=BAC. I suspect solar radiation is the reason why =
people can keep their water at lower air temperatures without =
immediately being awarded a split tailplane.
So if you have both outside temperatures below 2=BAC and no sunlight ...
=
beware!

I've been assuming that solar heating is the reason that the tail ballast
doesn't end up freezing during these summer flights. At a few degrees
below 0C in shadow, it should still take something more than an hour for
a few liters of water to freeze to the extent that it would cause
structural damage. Lack of lift and cold toes would cause me to seek
warmer environs long before that point...